Distance of spotting ? GWX2.1

Catfish · 04-26-08, 02:50 PM

Hello,
i only tell what i found in Buchheims three photo books, and i say a visual detection of a U-boat or even a small ship by a destroyer, at a range of 30 or even 20 kilometers, and even during calm seas, is not possible.
I do not understand it, when i last played SHIII with a lot of mods it was somehow more realistic. Realistic does not mean for me to make the sim unnecessarily hard, if it does not reflect the real thing.

Some texts:

"One time a destroyer just came straight at us. We thought that was it - but he had not seen us, raced by us, and vanished."
Happened during dawn, no storm.

"A U-boat operating surfaced was almost invisible for the enemy: It towered only a small amount above the surface, and had no conspicuous silhouette if it did not run fast on a parallel course. Downside was the low lookout and thus a narrow field of vision"
No numbers here, but if you see the photos of the calm sea it is even here downright impossible to visually detect a boat, without radar.

"Assuming good weather and a steamer mast height of 40 meters, a rough estimate would be that a ship is sighted at a distance from 12 to 15 miles"
This is the distance a U-boat would get a glimpse of a ship with masts of 40 meters height. If you want to detect a U-boat with some 2-3 meters of elevation above the sea level, 8 miles is the absolute maximum.

If there was a large convoy it will most probably be detected much earlier and at a greater distance, for the plumes of smoke were treacherous. Warships usually did not produce the typical black smoke, if only intentionally for making up a smoke screen.

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

Kpt. Lehmann · 04-26-08, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

Hello,
i only tell what i found in Buchheims three photo books, and i say a visual detection of a U-boat or even a small ship by a destroyer, at a range of 30 or even 20 kilometers, and even during calm seas, is not possible.
I do not understand it, when i last played SHIII with a lot of mods it was somehow more realistic. Realistic does not mean for me to make the sim unnecessarily hard, if it does not reflect the real thing.

Some texts:

"One time a destroyer just came straight at us. We thought that was it - but he had not seen us, raced by us, and vanished."
Happened during dawn, no storm.

"A U-boat operating surfaced was almost invisible for the enemy: It towered only a small amount above the surface, and had no conspicuous silhouette if it did not run fast on a parallel course. Downside was the low lookout and thus a narrow field of vision"
No numbers here, but if you see the photos of the calm sea it is even here downright impossible to visually detect a boat, without radar.

"Assuming good weather and a steamer mast height of 40 meters, a rough estimate would be that a ship is sighted at a distance from 12 to 15 miles"
This is the distance a U-boat would get a glimpse of a ship with masts of 40 meters height. If you want to detect a U-boat with some 2-3 meters of elevation above the sea level, 8 miles is the absolute maximum.

If there was a large convoy it will most probably be detected much earlier and at a greater distance, for the plumes of smoke were treacherous. Warships usually did not produce the typical black smoke, if only intentionally for making up a smoke screen.

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

<to address this matter definitively again>

Regardless of the situation, the consequence for reducing visual sensor sensitivity in GWX would be to return AI units to their former status of wandering around in an alcoholic stupor.

I have no intention of walking backwards in that way. Nor do I feel that the benefits of ubering the player visual sensors to compensate, outweighs the negative consequences of doing so.

Catfish · 04-27-08, 03:58 AM

Hello,
only to make this clear:
A U-boat can be spotted visually by the AI at a range of 30 kilometers.
I can spot the AI at, hmm, 20 ? Or less ? It just felt unreal to be shelled by a ship which smoke i cannot even see - and no radar was used.
If it is not possible to change this without breaking the entire artificial "intelligence" in SH3 there seems to be no way out. However this takes away one of the biggest advantages a boat really had, and makes the shadowing of a convoy almost impossible in calm seas. Seems we will have to live with that

Greetings,
Catfish

_Seth_ · 04-27-08, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

It just felt unreal to be shelled by a ship which smoke i cannot even see - and no radar was used.

Hmmm.....actually a good point..I could possibly somehow have understood the fact that the ship had seen you (visually confirmed you), but shelling...? At that distance, such a small target and not sure of your speed and heading (Too far away to get excact readings)? From a moving destroyer....? I dont think the hit percentage would be high in that matter.....

Catfish · 04-27-08, 06:22 AM

Hello Seth,
i repeated this a few times, the destroyer was invisible for me, even with exterior cam on. Calm seas, ok. And believe me, i instantly dived when those shells hissed by. I had stayed at PD, running with less than 100 rpms silent. Hm.
Not even that helped me, after 10 to 12 minutes he became visible, and then he was right above me - exactly - hit - sunk. In 1939, by a four stacker.

What does that "chunk" value of 30 mean in the AIsensors.dat file ? Does it mean the 30 kilometers visibility for the AI, or is it another value?
Greetings,
Catfish

_Seth_ · 04-27-08, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

Hello Seth,
i repeated this a few times, the destroyer was invisible for me, even with exterior cam on. Calm seas, ok. And believe me, i instantly dived when those shells hissed by. I had stayed at PD, running with less than 100 rpms silent. Hm.
Not even that helped me, after 10 to 12 minutes he became visible, and then he was right above me - exactly - hit - sunk. In 1939, by a four stacker.

What does that "chunk" value of 30 mean in the AIsensors.dat file ? Does it mean the 30 kilometers visibility for the AI, or is it another value?
Greetings,
Catfish

Hmm...weird... :hmm:
The destroyers "crew experience" would play a role here, i think, but as you say, mate; A total "invisible" ship should not be able to send shells down on you from that distance, without having a rather sofisticated weapon system combined with a good radar (something this one didnt have, since it was too early)..

***

I have no idea what that number means, mate..Here we need the help some excellent mod-brains...

04-26-08, 02:50 PM	#1
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,767 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hello, i only tell what i found in Buchheims three photo books, and i say a visual detection of a U-boat or even a small ship by a destroyer, at a range of 30 or even 20 kilometers, and even during calm seas, is not possible. I do not understand it, when i last played SHIII with a lot of mods it was somehow more realistic. Realistic does not mean for me to make the sim unnecessarily hard, if it does not reflect the real thing. Some texts: "One time a destroyer just came straight at us. We thought that was it - but he had not seen us, raced by us, and vanished." Happened during dawn, no storm. "A U-boat operating surfaced was almost invisible for the enemy: It towered only a small amount above the surface, and had no conspicuous silhouette if it did not run fast on a parallel course. Downside was the low lookout and thus a narrow field of vision" No numbers here, but if you see the photos of the calm sea it is even here downright impossible to visually detect a boat, without radar. "Assuming good weather and a steamer mast height of 40 meters, a rough estimate would be that a ship is sighted at a distance from 12 to 15 miles" This is the distance a U-boat would get a glimpse of a ship with masts of 40 meters height. If you want to detect a U-boat with some 2-3 meters of elevation above the sea level, 8 miles is the absolute maximum. If there was a large convoy it will most probably be detected much earlier and at a greater distance, for the plumes of smoke were treacherous. Warships usually did not produce the typical black smoke, if only intentionally for making up a smoke screen. Thanks and greetings, Catfish Last edited by Catfish; 04-26-08 at 03:37 PM. Reason: typos ...

04-27-08, 03:58 AM	#3
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,767 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hello, only to make this clear: A U-boat can be spotted visually by the AI at a range of 30 kilometers. I can spot the AI at, hmm, 20 ? Or less ? It just felt unreal to be shelled by a ship which smoke i cannot even see - and no radar was used. If it is not possible to change this without breaking the entire artificial "intelligence" in SH3 there seems to be no way out. However this takes away one of the biggest advantages a boat really had, and makes the shadowing of a convoy almost impossible in calm seas. Seems we will have to live with that Greetings, Catfish

04-27-08, 06:22 AM	#5
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,767 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hello Seth, i repeated this a few times, the destroyer was invisible for me, even with exterior cam on. Calm seas, ok. And believe me, i instantly dived when those shells hissed by. I had stayed at PD, running with less than 100 rpms silent. Hm. Not even that helped me, after 10 to 12 minutes he became visible, and then he was right above me - exactly - hit - sunk. In 1939, by a four stacker. What does that "chunk" value of 30 mean in the AIsensors.dat file ? Does it mean the 30 kilometers visibility for the AI, or is it another value? Greetings, Catfish