I never understand why Krigersmarine don't request they terms from France

04-19-08, 09:44 AM

In the first place the KM had no say in the surrender terms that created Vichy and took France out of the war. Even in Germany war and peace were made at the political level and not by the military.

Secondly the French navy was widely scattered, with elements in French North Africa, Dakar, North America, Alexandria, Indo-China and the UK. The combat effective parts of the Fleet had been crippled by the RN at the battle of Mers el Kabr, 3 July 1940 which was after the French surrender. Other significant elements disarmed themselves and were laid up with French caretaker crews under British supervision. Still others got themselves interned in the US and were out of German reach.

Third I think that you might under estimate the ease in which foriegn warships can be integrated into a navy. Creating a combat effective warship is not just a matter of lighting off the boilers, doing a couple of turns around the harbour to see how she handles and then joining the war effort. Typically 12-18 months is common, all of the engines, weapons, ammunition, ship systems, fire control etc. would have to be replaced by domestic items (themselves in short supply) or learned from scratch. The KM was pretty small, subtracting leadership, sailors and shipwrights to get the French ships into service would probably effectively ended the U-Boat war. Resources that should have been working on submarines would have been syphoned off to refit surface ships of little value to the war effort. U-Boats were the only realistic strategic naval option open to Germany. Surface ships, no matter how cool, could never have won the war at sea for Hitler.

And lastly, I'll probably get flamed for this as well, but the French Navy does have a long and honourable history behind it even if it lacks the tradition of victory that the RN has. When Germany decided to seize the surviving French warships after occupying Vichy, many were scuttled by their crews. There is no reason to doubt that most ship captain's would have done the same in 1940.

Good Hunting

04-19-08, 09:44 AM	#18
Randomizer Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	In the first place the KM had no say in the surrender terms that created Vichy and took France out of the war. Even in Germany war and peace were made at the political level and not by the military. Secondly the French navy was widely scattered, with elements in French North Africa, Dakar, North America, Alexandria, Indo-China and the UK. The combat effective parts of the Fleet had been crippled by the RN at the battle of Mers el Kabr, 3 July 1940 which was after the French surrender. Other significant elements disarmed themselves and were laid up with French caretaker crews under British supervision. Still others got themselves interned in the US and were out of German reach. Third I think that you might under estimate the ease in which foriegn warships can be integrated into a navy. Creating a combat effective warship is not just a matter of lighting off the boilers, doing a couple of turns around the harbour to see how she handles and then joining the war effort. Typically 12-18 months is common, all of the engines, weapons, ammunition, ship systems, fire control etc. would have to be replaced by domestic items (themselves in short supply) or learned from scratch. The KM was pretty small, subtracting leadership, sailors and shipwrights to get the French ships into service would probably effectively ended the U-Boat war. Resources that should have been working on submarines would have been syphoned off to refit surface ships of little value to the war effort. U-Boats were the only realistic strategic naval option open to Germany. Surface ships, no matter how cool, could never have won the war at sea for Hitler. And lastly, I'll probably get flamed for this as well, but the French Navy does have a long and honourable history behind it even if it lacks the tradition of victory that the RN has. When Germany decided to seize the surviving French warships after occupying Vichy, many were scuttled by their crews. There is no reason to doubt that most ship captain's would have done the same in 1940. Good Hunting