Chavez to buy Russian subs

[Dmitry Markov]

Another customer for worn out stuff - welcome , welcome!!!!

Russians..will always be willing to buy a new weapon or military machine of any kind. :hmm: I've seen alot of HUGE submarines, probably bigger than my house.

[Steel_Tomb]

Russia is playing a dangerous game with its arms exports, I don't say the UK is clean as a whistle either I was strongly against the arms deal recently signed between Sadi Arabia and BAE Systems. I recall (I may be wrong) that Russia was in the process of selling Skyval's to Iran of all places!!! I can understand selling some arms aborad, nothing wrong with that... but Russia is selling their arms to all the wrong people, I think its pretty obvious the troubles that are occuring near Venezuela and now Russia is going to throw a couple of modern subs their way?! I don't know why Russia would sell more arms to North Korea either, especially with the state North Korea is in. Surely Kim Jong Il should be concentrating on improving the welfare of his own citizens instead of his armed forces. Typical behaviour of autocratic regimes, sell arms to make the world a more unstable place .

[Thunder]

We got three subs(south africa), and can barely manage to run one but we manage to run it quite well methinks...mmm?:rotfl:
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/ex...ews__national/

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by Steel_Tomb

Russia is playing a dangerous game with its arms exports, I don't say the UK is clean as a whistle either I was strongly against the arms deal recently signed between Sadi Arabia and BAE Systems. I recall (I may be wrong) that Russia was in the process of selling Skyval's to Iran of all places!!! I can understand selling some arms aborad, nothing wrong with that... but Russia is selling their arms to all the wrong people, I think its pretty obvious the troubles that are occuring near Venezuela and now Russia is going to throw a couple of modern subs their way?! I don't know why Russia would sell more arms to North Korea either, especially with the state North Korea is in. Surely Kim Jong Il should be concentrating on improving the welfare of his own citizens instead of his armed forces. Typical behaviour of autocratic regimes, sell arms to make the world a more unstable place .

Countries have a right to defend themselves I suppose, even ones we might not like very much, but to single out Russia is unfair seeing as they aren't doing things any differently to anybody else. Also its not the autocratic regimes that are the biggest arms exporters either its the US and UK and were not too fussy to who well sell to. US miltary aid to Israel ran at some 2.76 billion dollars in 2003. Israel is the most beligerant state in the middle east and the US even concedes that its human rights record is poor in occupied palestinian territories, and thats not the worst of it.

http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/p...ticle_17.shtml

The UK has a very shady past concerning arms deals:

The UK is the second largest arms exporter in the world (after the USA) and has, according to government figures, exported over £27 billion of military equipment in the past five years alone. For decades the UK Government has had a policy of promoting arms exports, seemingly at any cost. The result of this policy is that the UK continues to arm repressive regimes around the world. In 2000, the UK licensed military exports to 30 of the 40 most repressive regimes in the world and British weapons are being used in most of the world's current conflicts.

http://www.caat.org.uk/campaigns/she...t/briefing.php

The UK government has an inclusive attitude to DSEI: regimes who abuse human rights are happily allowed in. Previous guests included Indonesia, Libya, Israel and of course Saudi Arabia - the tyranny of choice for the UK's largest arms company BAE Systems. India and Pakistan both attended DSEI in 2005 - where they could buy weapons to aim at each other. While this year's guest list is still to be released, we can be sure that despotic regimes are likely to return.

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/...unrunners.html

Countries identified by the government as having poor human rights records have been invited to the arms exhibition which opens in London's docklands today.
They include Saudi Arabia, Vietnam, Colombia, Algeria, Jordan, and Indonesia, whose human rights records have been criticised by the Foreign Office. So, too, have two of the west's new allies - Libya and Iraq.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/se...tics.armstrade

Looks like we supply quite a few of the 'wrong' countries too.

[Steel_Tomb]

I did actually point out our past failings, but Russia does it hell of a lot more consistantly than us! Sell sell sell, without thinking of the consequences of their actions... sounds like Putinesque politics to me "I know, to solve a seige on a school we'll ram the walls down with Tanks and use gas!!" Yes... very subtle that! Not an example of arms sales, but of one where they've not thought their actions through, with very costly consequences! Of course they didn't take the blame for their mistakes in that terrible episode, same with the theatre seige. They administered an "experimental" nerve agent unevenly without a working antidote... very clever! Killed more people than the terrorists did!

[XabbaRus]

Actually the theatre seige in terms of taking out terrorist was a success. I read an article by an anti-terrorist officer that the Russian method though resulting in loss of non-combatant life was a success as considered by western agencies.

It would be interesting to how it would have progressed had it happened here in the west. I bet we'd have offered them tea and biscuits if they came out peacefully a free lottery ticket and a flight out of here plus a group shag with Vanessa Redgrave.

[AkbarGulag]

The only failing for Russia in the Beslan siege was not moving faster. Remember, the guys (and gals) taking those poor children hostage were extremists. No different to ones that fly planes into buildings. They have the attitude 'my cause justifies killing you' and that makes them unworthy of any negotiation.

I'm surprised nobody here has mentioned the French in arms exports, those guys usually do really well at competing for global share. There is nothing sinister in Russia selling weapons to countries like Venezuela, it's not like providing them with cluster weapons and military equipment designed to supress and kill in urban theatres. It's a kilo sub, hardly likely to be used to supress opposition supporters on the streets of Caracas

[Trex]

Top arms exporters (including non-payment transfers) for 2007, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute website (billions of $ US):

1. USA 7,821
2.Russia 6,463
3. Germany 2,891
4. France 1,586
5. Netherlands 1,575
6. UK 978
7. Spain 825
8. Italy 694
9. PRC 562
10. Sweden 437
11. Poland 255
12. Israel 246
13. Canada 210
14. Switzerland 208
15. South Korea 80