[rel] Sleeping Giant

[peabody]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Hi Peabody, I tried this mission and i have to say I was thoroughly confused about where I should be and I was a complete failure. The orders said return to Pearl harbour, so I thought OK, I'm at Pearl now, so I'll sail to the mission objective. This ended the mission. So that was obviously the wrong thing to do (I did notice it said turn right at the end, and this didn't sound quite right).

So the next time out, I assumed I should be sailing out with the task force, so i did that, then got a message about the hostilities not starting yet, so no shooting. Then i got a message saying the Japanese had invaded Manilla... Then another message saying the US and Japan were not at war, which I realise is a campaign layer thing.

I then sailed to the marked star, and saw Japanese planes that attacked me, then I got a message about the task force not being found and they were expected to attack shortly. At this point, it wasn't clear whether I should return to Pearl harbour, or to remain on station at the rendezvous point. So I decided to sail back to Pearl, with my amazing foresight, I suspected Pearl might be attacked.

So I return to Pearl, being attacked by Japanese planes all the way back and arrived at the mouth of Pearl, to be told that the task force was to the north of me, near Opana, but I have no idea where Opana is, so wasn't sure if I was in the right place. I couldn't find the task force at all.

Were there planes actually attacking Pearl at the time the said they were? I wasn't close enough to see - about 40 miles out and by the time I got there, no one was home.

Could the orders be direct? Ie RETURN TO PEARL IMMEDIATELY. STAY ON STATION. Also, when the message about Opana being the suspected position of the task force, how about a map contact update?

Wow, that was a mess. Sorry about that. The biggest problem is the game doesn't give you a message right away, so if you had stayed docked a message would come up expecting an attack blah blah, task force and subs leave pearl immediately, open sealed order after underway, blah blah.
Then as you follow the BBs out of the harbor you get a message to go NW to your station (star). The not at war was my message because to make it realistic I had to have the Japanese attack first.
The Manila thing was generated by the game not my mission.

Should have made it clear to remain at station. Was just attempting to give updates. The planes were not put in by me either, but there are 6 carriers headed your way so the game probably did that. On testing I didn't get planes till after the attack was over.
Then you get a message about mini sub sunk outside harbor, which did happen IRL.
Then a message they haven't found them yet.
Then a message they are found and large formation of planes picked up on Radar.

Opana Point is where the radar picked up the jap planes, but it was ignored because they thought it was the B17s coming from the mainland (happened IRL) and the message read that they picked up a large formation of planes not ships so I didn't think that would create a confusing issue, but it did. Basically what I was saying but didn't say very well is that the invasion force had launched their planes so the intelligence we got was right and they were coming from the Northwest right where you were, so be on the lookout for the ships. But I didn't give enough info and like you commented if you didn't know where Opana was you wouldn't understand the message. But in writing it I didn't put where Opana was because you weren't suppose to go there anyway.

Then a message that you could attack because the planes had started to attack Pearl Harbor. And that Task Force 7 was on it's way to help. So the planes had already been launched and the invasion force had to stick around until the planes returned which is when you step in and sink them all. I allowed time for you to sink some ships and then the task force arrives to help because you don't have enough fish to sink everything (2BB and 6 Carriers plus escorts) and you can continue to sink ships while they are attacking. Actually it takes the DDs off your back too.
I was hoping it would also make you have to make a choice. The BBs can be a problem for the US task force but the Carriers need to be sunk, so it's a choice thing.

The part about ending the mission I had a hard time with. I set a zone for you to enter to end the mission but it couldn't be in the channel leading into the harbor because you would trip it on the way out. That was the reason for the enter channel and turn right to trip the "end game".

Now, I can see where you would be confused especially when the game waits so long to give you the message to leave port, and the objective message wasn't very good now that I read it over. I wanted the message to leave port to appear immediately, so you wouldn't sit there wondering what to do, but the game doesn't work that way. I set the time but it gives the message quite a bit later.

I will definately have to rework this one, because you were basically suppose to stay on station and you would be notified if and where we found the invasion force. I have read the messages again and I can see where you would be confused because you were not specifically told to stay on station.

Thanks for giving it a try, I will have to change it and make the messages more specific. But, it's probably too late, anyone that downloaded it probably won't download again, but I'll give it a try.

Thanks again for trying it out. The input helps a lot so I won't make the same mistakes again. I definately have to change the Objective in the opening screen and come up with a better solution to end the game. I first tried the sink tonnage but then the stupid window pops up while you're in the middle of the fight, and any trigger zones would get tripped while you are leaving, maybe I can set it so the zone isn't there until after you leave.

Anyway that is the explaination so at least you know what was suppose to happen, if you had stayed on station the Japanese Invasion force would come by. The messages on the planes was just to give you info that happened IRL to make it more "historical" instead it made it more confusing.

One thing you didn't notice or at least didn't mention, you had a Gar sub which wasn't even available at that time. I put in a Gato but ended up with a Gar, don't understand that one.

All of your confusion makes perfect sense, I just didn't see it because I wrote the mission and I knew what was going on.

Once aging, thank you for trying it out!!!

Peabody

[Nisgeis]

Yeah, I know from old that designing scripted things is difficult, because the players don't do what you expect them to. As for the sub choice, I had wquite a wide choice and I chose a Tambor class :-).

I don't think many people will like to wait around doing nothing at the start of a mission, it will make them start to look for things to do on their own, which makes it confusing when the messages start coming in.

As for the start, I don't know a great deal about the attack on Pearl Harbour, but I do know that the carrier fleet had left a couple of days before on exercises... how about instead of starting in the harbour, you are part of a group of x submarines assigned to be the carrier fleet's screen on the exercise, when you receive flash traffic warning of an attack and your mission turns from exercise to real and you are sent to scout for the carrier group? You could receive orders directing your fellow subs to scout west and east of Pearl and you to scout north of pearl.

This would mean you started at sea, with the fleet and not in a laggy port (I have a nice machine, but it doesn't like harbours much fps wise).

As I understand it, a fleet of PBYs was sent out on diverging course of 10 degrees each to search for the carrier fleet and it was found by one at almost the limit of its fuel. I'm not expert with the mission editor, but I think you can create a task force and give it waypoints, so they player if he knows where it is can go directly for it. You can also have this task force removed at a certain date and a new task force created at the same spot a minute afterwards, with a contact report. this should, I think, create a contact report at the time you want for the location you want. I'm not sure though - have been so busy, barely had time to try this mission, let alone try something new in the mission editor :-). The contact report would make it crystal clear to the player where he should be heading. It then wouldn't matter if you had already encountered the Japanese fleet, as the PBY report would be sent to all ships anyway.

If you base the exercise southeast of Pearl, you should be fairly safe that there will be no planes.

That's just my thoughts, feel free to ignore them .

[peabody]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Yeah, I know from old that designing scripted things is difficult, because the players don't do what you expect them to. As for the sub choice, I had wquite a wide choice and I chose a Tambor class :-).

I don't think many people will like to wait around doing nothing at the start of a mission, it will make them start to look for things to do on their own, which makes it confusing when the messages start coming in.

As for the start, I don't know a great deal about the attack on Pearl Harbour, but I do know that the carrier fleet had left a couple of days before on exercises... how about instead of starting in the harbour, you are part of a group of x submarines assigned to be the carrier fleet's screen on the exercise, when you receive flash traffic warning of an attack and your mission turns from exercise to real and you are sent to scout for the carrier group? You could receive orders directing your fellow subs to scout west and east of Pearl and you to scout north of pearl.

This would mean you started at sea, with the fleet and not in a laggy port (I have a nice machine, but it doesn't like harbours much fps wise).

As I understand it, a fleet of PBYs was sent out on diverging course of 10 degrees each to search for the carrier fleet and it was found by one at almost the limit of its fuel. I'm not expert with the mission editor, but I think you can create a task force and give it waypoints, so they player if he knows where it is can go directly for it. You can also have this task force removed at a certain date and a new task force created at the same spot a minute afterwards, with a contact report. this should, I think, create a contact report at the time you want for the location you want. I'm not sure though - have been so busy, barely had time to try this mission, let alone try something new in the mission editor :-). The contact report would make it crystal clear to the player where he should be heading. It then wouldn't matter if you had already encountered the Japanese fleet, as the PBY report would be sent to all ships anyway.

If you base the exercise southeast of Pearl, you should be fairly safe that there will be no planes.

That's just my thoughts, feel free to ignore them .

All excellent points, I appreciate the input. The reason I started in port is to give the feel for what should have happened if they had paid attention to the warning sign instead of ignoring them. And I just thought sailing out of port with a line of Battle Ships whould look cool. I did have some search planes leave while you were in port but you probably didn't see them because you were deciding what to do. I don't like the way it takes so long to get the messsage.
It was more a fantasy history, like how things could have been a whole lot different.
Good idea about giving a contact report!! Didn't think of that. The one reason I had the sub sail to a specific point is that the task force is going to show up to assist and if your're in the wrong spot you won't be part of the action and the other point is they may get there first and you won't have anything to do. That's what happened to Rockin Robbins on my first mission, it was recreating Bismark sea and planes did most of the attacking. Well, he got unlucky and the planes sank ALL the merchant ships. It had only happened once in testing and I tested it a lot.
But I could use your idea of being at sea and just make sure he gets to the spot on time. I left a little too much time in case you ran into something (like the planes that the game put in) and it took longer than expected to get on station.
As for the Carriers on exercise. There were only two, the third was in the US being repaired. And the two were transporting planes to Midway and I think Guam (not positive on the second) and not on exercises, there were not even together. The Enterprise should have been back in Pearl before the attack except the weather held her up.
But, I'll do some fixing and come up with something better. You made some good suggestions and I appreciate it.

Peabody