US Navy, Chinese say hello!

[Steel_Tomb]

Interesting article. They did well to get so close to a CV without being detected. What do you guys think about this? I'm guessing the song class is a electric/diesel boat like the Kilo?

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtri...hina_03_28.asp

[Dowly]

Adm. Tim Keating, commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific, told a House hearing March 13, that “at that time, a carrier battle group was not involved in anti-submarine-specific operations. They were doing other things.

Wow, talking about letting your guard down. I'm not that familiar with surface vessels, but shouldnt there be someone looking out for subs all the time?

[Steel_Tomb]

Exactly, perhaps this argument over the use of active sonar is costing the US Navy a little bit too much in security? I mean those electric subs are damned quiet so passive sonar would make it quite hard to detect, active on the other hand is not... U-boat Kaluens will agree with this! =

Do the Chinese have Skyval's btw? If so, shiiiit lol... if things don't improve the US can kiss goodbye to a few carriers in any future conflict with china.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Steel_Tomb

Exactly, perhaps this argument over the use of active sonar is costing the US Navy a little bit too much in security? I mean those electric subs are damned quiet so passive sonar would make it quite hard to detect, active on the other hand is not... U-boat Kaluens will agree with this! =

Aye, but active sonar is like a flashlight in a dark room. You can see someone, but everyone can see you. With the Chinese navy having plenty of Sunburn missiles, I can't see any CVBG popping up with a "Here I am" burst of active sonar

[Steel_Tomb]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Aye, but active sonar is like a flashlight in a dark room. You can see someone, but everyone can see you. With the Chinese navy having plenty of Sunburn missiles, I can't see any CVBG popping up with a "Here I am" burst of active sonar

True, but a Carrier task force isn't exactly the quiestest thing sailing the worlds oceans lol. I suppose the only advantage is that the smaller subs need to get closer to engage properly, given the US more time to locate anything suspicious on their passive sonar before giving it a "hello, bugger off" in the form of a ping or two (perhaps coupled with a few sonabouys to keep track of the little tinker

Another point. How do you think this episode will effect US & Taiwanese Naval doctrine in terms of the threat posed by China.

[fatty]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Aye, but active sonar is like a flashlight in a dark room. You can see someone, but everyone can see you. With the Chinese navy having plenty of Sunburn missiles, I can't see any CVBG popping up with a "Here I am" burst of active sonar

Personally I would put more faith in the air defence capabilities of an entire AEGIS-networked carrier screen then I would in that same screen's abilities to evade a full spread of torpedos fired at near point blank range. Better to make them fight on your terms; force them to resort to the same Soviet-style missile salvo tactics that you spent half the Cold War and many billions of dollars training to defeat.

Originally Posted by Steel_Tomb

Exactly, perhaps this argument over the use of active sonar is costing the US Navy a little bit too much in security? I mean those electric subs are damned quiet so passive sonar would make it quite hard to detect, active on the other hand is not... U-boat Kaluens will agree with this! =

What I fail to understand is how these slow, low-endurance SSKs keep managing to sneak up on fast, high-endurance carrier groups. The SSK is a weapon of position, not manouever. At sprint speed they can only maintain a charge for a dozen miles. I would not characterize this as event as a failure of U.S. anti-submarine capacities. Moreso I would characterize it as failures of a.) intelligence, failing to localize and track the SSK during its most acoustically vulnerable moments i.e. snorting (representing poor waterspace management and maritime domain awareness and is a good reason to build more subs of your own), and also b.) the blue fleet's manouever, staying still long enough to allow a slow-ass lumbering submarine to knock on your front door.

[Dowly]

No idea about the China's weaponry. But as for the US carriers getting their butts kicked, dont know. If it would be a war time, I'm sure they would be listening 24/7 for underwater threats. Then again, it's a whole another thing if they can hear the sub.

[DeepIron]

Well, part of the issue is in regards to using active sonar and the damage it causes to marine life, especially cetaceans. There have been legal proceedings in the US restricting the use of active sonar in some areas, the Navy has been trying to remain sensitive to the issue and has curbed it's use somewhat. There are number of citations both for and against it's use on the 'net...

Can't ping 'em, can't find 'em...

[bradclark1]

Well, not good for CV group commanders promotion potential.
I think it's a good thing because if that isn't a wakeup call I don't know what is and give thanks this is peace time. A very embarrassing situation.

[Trex]

The Kitty Hawk must be a sub-magnet. Didn't this same thing happen a couple of years ago to her?

The Song class is not a PRC-produced Kilo; it is a native design, but yes, it's a conventionally-powered sub. The first ones were supposed to be very noisy, but they may have fine-tuned that. All the same, that's pretty close; it would appear that nobody was listening. Maybe American Idol was on or something.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

It wouldnt suprise me if China got sent some Shkval's during the Soviet Union days. Quick, but unreliable and noisy. But still, dropping the ball big time here from US ASW.