Muslim baptized by pope says life in danger

[Tchocky]

These people.


Anyway, if I was switching religions I can't say Catholicism would be in the running.

[DeepIron]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

These people.

What?

Anyway, if I was switching religions I can't say Catholicism would be in the running.

Personally, I don't think there is a "religion" on the planet that is correct...

[Happy Times]

They have been pushing for a conflict with the Catholic church, seems they have gotten their wish.

[DeepIron]

"Sherman, set the Way Back machine for 1095 A.D. We're going on a Crusade."

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by DeepIron

"Sherman, set the Way Back machine for 1095 A.D. We're going on a Crusade."

:rotfl:

[Stealth Hunter]

Saladin! Huzzah!

Seriously, Saladin was perhaps one of the greatest men of the Crusades. When he died, he had given over 3/4 of his treasury to the poor (and the man was EXTREMELY rich; so rich I can't even describe it). There wasn't even enough to pay for a vault for his body. If that's not selflessness, then I don't know what is.

Islam itself isn't the problem. In fact, it's actually a very beautiful religion. PEOPLE are the problem. Don't blame the creation, blame the creator. I personally think the entire globe would be better off if religion was destroyed entirely because I think it causes more problems that it solves AND I also believe that the chance of us being selected in the grand scheme of the universe to uphold the message of God is just ridiculous. The universe is infinite, and WE for some mysterious reason are chosen to spread the "good news"? Bah. It's all a bunch of crock. The only reason why we think we're special is because we humans think that we're the only things in existence in this endless gulf of space and that's because we've never known anything other than ourselves. We don't think things out... PEOPLE are dumb, stupid, panicky, and we should know it. 1,500 years ago everybody KNEW that the Earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago everybody KNEW that the Earth was flat. 300 years ago everybody KNEW that our solar system was the only thing that existed... imagine what we'll know tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Skybird/Neal Stevens

Three actively running Islam-threads may be a test to mod's patience. Let's keep it together.

Indeed...

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Saladin! Huzzah!

Seriously, Saladin was perhaps one of the greatest men of the Crusades. When he died, he had given over 3/4 of his treasury to the poor (and the man was EXTREMELY rich; so rich I can't even describe it). There wasn't even enough to pay for a vault for his body. If that's not selflessness, then I don't know what is.

Islam itself isn't the problem. In fact, it's actually a very beautiful religion. PEOPLE are the problem. Don't blame the creation, blame the creator.

As you expect, I totally must object that. Islam makes and forms the thinking of people, it eductaes them from childhood on. And the result I see: fatalism, stagnation, a certain type of arrogance against all others, conquest, intolerance. Islam IS the problem. the Quran suffering from very lacking authenticity, and massive inner contradictions that nevertheless are accepted and waved off as unimportant. there is no use in nice-talking it and covering it up, SH. And where Islam turns violently agianst others, it is in correspondence with Muhammad's teaching, and muhammad acted like that all his life, and after his death, Islam launched the most successful military offensive against all world in the history of mankind, leading it to Spain in just 83 years, leading into the heart of France, to all Soiuthern europe, all northern coast of Africa, destryoing Perisa, almost destroying Indian culture as well. Where Christians turn violent in conquest - it is in violation with Jesus' teachings.

I personally think the entire globe would be better off if religion was destroyed entirely because I think it causes more problems that it solves AND I also believe that the chance of us being selected in the grand scheme of the universe to uphold the message of God is just ridiculous. The universe is infinite, and WE for some mysterious reason are chosen to spread the "good news"? Bah. It's all a bunch of crock. The only reason why we think we're special is because we humans think that we're the only things in existence in this endless gulf of space and that's because we've never known anything other than ourselves. We don't think things out... PEOPLE are dumb, stupid, panicky, and we should know it. 1,500 years ago everybody KNEW that the Earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago everybody KNEW that the Earth was flat. 300 years ago everybody KNEW that our solar system was the only thing that existed... imagine what we'll know tomorrow.

Indeed...

Saladin - also was a ruler with an iron fist, by that brutality he was seen as a great defender of Islam. He executed some of the most promising possible reformists and thinkers in all Islam'S history. And history books tell us that there is a encripture at his grave saying "Er säuberte die Erde vom Schmutz der Ungläubigen" (He cleaned the earth of the dirty infidels). I must laugh how much this figure of history is mystified and glorified not only in Islam, but in the West as well, even Goethe and intitially Voltaire fell for their romantic fanatsy abiout the man, although Voltaire later turned against Islam with determination. On the other hand - the same was done with Muhammad, too, and if you look at the historical Muhammad, you can't get the two together. Saladin also used murder and betrayal in his younger years to support his rise to power. the only really positive thing about him that could be said is that he did not retaliate the way the Crusaders did when capturing Jerusalem: where the europeans commited a massacre, he let the inhabitants live - in that, the movie "Kingdom of Heaven" is correct. The rest of the film is very much fictional only, although the names did exist, Happy Times! (and yes, I liked the directurs cut of the movie very much).

The splitted image of Saladin is exactly illusztratin the two faces of Islam, of which you must see BOTH to really understand what you are dealing with. The quran is filled with sweet words - but also with many things that relativise them. Saladin may have been generous - but only when you were following Islam to the word. Islam talks of tolerance - but only when you accpet to live in an inferior state yourself, as a dhimmi, accepting systemtical discrimination and no equal law protection and when you pay protection money. It talks of peace - but only peace there is if Islam is not put in question by something non-Islamic existing. Short, all these nice solunding words are very well as long as it goes all to the will of Islam. where you reject Islam, it calls it a case of self-defense to destroy what is not submitting to it, that way we infidels are the eternal agressors and forever will be responsible for the prevention of peace in the world. You Jews and Chriostians at this board still are relatively well off - people like me are called for to be killed, since we do not even belong to the three communities of the book.