Is he wrong??

Frau_Phillips · 03-17-08, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The WosMan

Moore is hated simply because he is a dishonest director. Now if he went out there and said, "hey this is all a joke" no problem but he doesn't. I have a very good book written by David Hardy (someone I know personally) who does an excellent job of tearing Moore and his "facts" apart piece by piece and proving that Moore is nothing but a giant fraud (like most mega-wealthy liberals are).

Putting aside whether I agree with what you say or not.

I don't think he'd be hated if his facts weren't true. Lots and lots of people agree with a lot of the stuff he says and STILL hate his guts. Conservatives are going to hate him regardless.
I stand by what I say, it's the way he does it and presents his facts.

mapuc · 03-17-08, 09:02 PM

On a danish debate I wrote this

"Yes you can hate a person or his personality whatever he's right or not-you just can't stand his gust you, just hate him. so whatever this person say is a lie/wrong."

And what do I mean about this?

Well I don't like Moore more than most of you do. BUT I do have so much behave that I can say to my self

Is he wrong or is he right about those thing he said in the movie?

What's wrong and what's right

If everything is wrong, then he should be accused of insult(or what the english term is for that)

If he's right all the way or some of it(don't how much of it, is true) then Some of the government should face a court.

Markus

antikristuseke · 03-17-08, 09:11 PM

Personaly i dont like Moore any more than I like Bush, at times it feels like they are the diferent sides of the same coin. Anyway I havent bothered to watch his 9/11 doc, but like his other works it probably has soe truth to it, if only by accident, and rest is just horse****.

Wolfehunter · 03-17-08, 09:24 PM

You should watch this movie.

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

Beginning is rough it takes off after the second part and third is the best!

Stealth Hunter · 03-17-08, 09:26 PM

Well, Bush is a corrupt person. He's put more things into law that violate our rights as citizens than the number of calories Michael Moore consumes every day. This anti-terrorist act that allows him to listen into our phone calls is a violation to freedom of speech and the right to privacy, and this Internet one that he's signed on is just the same. Anytime you type in something like "terrorist" or "bomb" on an Internet form, a tracker records the link and can take you right to the site. It can tell you who posted it, the time, their IP address, you name it. It gives you the works.

More and more, I feel like singing "Die Fahne Hoch!" rather than "My Country 'Tis of Thee". It's getting that bad. Our country is sinking extremely quickly. We can either abandon ship, get on the bandwagon, or go down with the ship. Personally, I'll probably abandon ship if it gets totally out of control (in which case, I will sing "Nearer My God To Thee" and skip the other two).

This pretty much sums up our situation (just change the name of the vessel to the USS America, lol):

Sailor Steve · 03-17-08, 11:19 PM

I have a hard time with people who are totally one-sided; people who are so convinced they are right they feel they can say anything, true or false, so long as it leads to what they feel is right. Michael Moore is one of these. So is Sean Hannity.

Moore's movies tell the truth; but they don't tell the whole truth, and they don't tell "nothing but the truth".

Yahoshua · 03-18-08, 06:19 AM

Moore is known as a chronic liar. That's already enough for me.

Jimbuna · 03-18-08, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahoshua

Moore is known as a chronic liar. That's already enough for me.

There is only ever one side to him.....the Moore/his side.

He's not that popular here in the UK IMHO.

Tchocky · 03-18-08, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Moore's movies tell the truth; but they don't tell the whole truth, and they don't tell "nothing but the truth".

Clang! Spot on.

What I like least about Moore is the emotional blackmail that rounds off every film. In most of his stuff, the presentation is resistible, but the premise is hard to challenge. Unfortunately, the Lila Lipscomb/Charlton Heston stunts made me sick.

mrbeast · 03-18-08, 08:33 AM

I don't mind Moore, I find him quite amusing at times but I can see why some people might find him abrasive. He can be a little mawkish at times.

His interview with Charlton Heston was uncomfortable to watch, as Heston was clearly an ailing and elderly man. So the final showdown with the public face of the NRA and pro-gun lobby in the US cast a bit of a shadow over what was possibly Moore's best film, although I haven't seen all of them.

Much of the criticism of Moore, that hes dishonest etc etc, is over stated. Most of the criticism seems to be of the nit-picking sort, I don't think Moore is any worse than most of his film making collegues. His website has a list of references for his latest film, 'Sicko' so if you wanted you can look up what evidence he bases his arguments on.

Moore's films are polemics and should be taken as such. Broadly they tell the 'truth', I think Sailor Steve puts it well.

antikristuseke · 03-18-08, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I have a hard time with people who are totally one-sided; people who are so convinced they are right they feel they can say anything, true or false, so long as it leads to what they feel is right. Michael Moore is one of these. So is Sean Hannity.

Moore's movies tell the truth; but they don't tell the whole truth, and they don't tell "nothing but the truth".

That about covers it.

Platapus · 03-18-08, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Moore's movies tell the truth; but they don't tell the whole truth, and they don't tell "nothing but the truth".

This was never more evident then in his movie "bowling for Columbine". I am sure that we all know the gun nuts depicted in the movie. Are all gun owners like these nuts? Of course not, but there ARE such gun nuts.

I imagine the Moore interviews 100 gun owners, finds the 15 nuts and then makes his movie about them.

Has he lied? Well that is up to your interpretation of lying.

He did not make up any falsehoods. These were actually gun nuts - not lying

He did not randomly interview gun owners to get an accurate sample - not lying but not honourable

He gave the impression that these gun nuts were representative of the gun community - Not lying but misleading

So does Moore lie in his movies? No

Does he deliberately mischaracterize the issue's environment? Yes

Does he "cherrypick" only the information that supports his agenda? Yes

Does he deliberately mislead the viewers yes

Does he deliberately use words in a way to lead the viewer toward his agenda? yes

Does he deliberately use emotional scenes/terms to lead the viewer to make an emotional response vice a logical one? Yes

Does he deliberately only tell a partial story that supports his agenda? Yes

hmmm Does this sound like other people with agendas? Yes

Moore makes documentaries. There is no requirement for a documentary to state the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. A movie can be heavily biased and still be called a documentary.

Watch Moore for emotional enjoyment, not for academic research. I don't know of too many people who are completely neutral about Moore's films. Either you like them or you hate them, but they are invoking of emotions thats for sure

As long as you keep this in mind, there should be no problem with his movies.

03-17-08, 09:24 PM	#4
Wolfehunter Crusty Capt. Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,752 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 25	You should watch this movie. http://zeitgeistmovie.com/ Beginning is rough it takes off after the second part and third is the best! __________________

03-17-08, 11:19 PM	#6
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I have a hard time with people who are totally one-sided; people who are so convinced they are right they feel they can say anything, true or false, so long as it leads to what they feel is right. Michael Moore is one of these. So is Sean Hannity. Moore's movies tell the truth; but they don't tell the whole truth, and they don't tell "nothing but the truth". __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-18-08, 06:19 AM	#7
Yahoshua The Old Man Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,493 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Moore is known as a chronic liar. That's already enough for me. __________________ Science is the organized unpredictability that strives not to set limits to mans' capabilities, but is the engine by which the limits of mans' understanding is defined-Yahoshua

03-18-08, 08:33 AM	#10
mrbeast Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bolton, UK Posts: 1,236 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I don't mind Moore, I find him quite amusing at times but I can see why some people might find him abrasive. He can be a little mawkish at times. His interview with Charlton Heston was uncomfortable to watch, as Heston was clearly an ailing and elderly man. So the final showdown with the public face of the NRA and pro-gun lobby in the US cast a bit of a shadow over what was possibly Moore's best film, although I haven't seen all of them. Much of the criticism of Moore, that hes dishonest etc etc, is over stated. Most of the criticism seems to be of the nit-picking sort, I don't think Moore is any worse than most of his film making collegues. His website has a list of references for his latest film, 'Sicko' so if you wanted you can look up what evidence he bases his arguments on. Moore's films are polemics and should be taken as such. Broadly they tell the 'truth', I think Sailor Steve puts it well. __________________

03-17-08, 09:02 PM	#2
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,537 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	On a danish debate I wrote this "Yes you can hate a person or his personality whatever he's right or not-you just can't stand his gust you, just hate him. so whatever this person say is a lie/wrong." And what do I mean about this? Well I don't like Moore more than most of you do. BUT I do have so much behave that I can say to my self Is he wrong or is he right about those thing he said in the movie? What's wrong and what's right If everything is wrong, then he should be accused of insult(or what the english term is for that) If he's right all the way or some of it(don't how much of it, is true) then Some of the government should face a court. Markus

03-17-08, 09:11 PM	#3
antikristuseke Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Estland Posts: 4,330 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Personaly i dont like Moore any more than I like Bush, at times it feels like they are the diferent sides of the same coin. Anyway I havent bothered to watch his 9/11 doc, but like his other works it probably has soe truth to it, if only by accident, and rest is just horse****.

03-17-08, 09:26 PM	#5
Stealth Hunter Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Y'ha-Nthlei Posts: 4,262 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Well, Bush is a corrupt person. He's put more things into law that violate our rights as citizens than the number of calories Michael Moore consumes every day. This anti-terrorist act that allows him to listen into our phone calls is a violation to freedom of speech and the right to privacy, and this Internet one that he's signed on is just the same. Anytime you type in something like "terrorist" or "bomb" on an Internet form, a tracker records the link and can take you right to the site. It can tell you who posted it, the time, their IP address, you name it. It gives you the works. More and more, I feel like singing "Die Fahne Hoch!" rather than "My Country 'Tis of Thee". It's getting that bad. Our country is sinking extremely quickly. We can either abandon ship, get on the bandwagon, or go down with the ship. Personally, I'll probably abandon ship if it gets totally out of control (in which case, I will sing "Nearer My God To Thee" and skip the other two). This pretty much sums up our situation (just change the name of the vessel to the USS America, lol):