GWX Team - convoy screen thoughts

ToySoldier · 03-13-08, 04:33 PM

Hi out there!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkShot

PS: You may comment on my use of map contacts and red lines for warships. However, doing without these aids would only make is more tedious, but not impossible to do. Since mainly, you need to key off the lead escort at the point. Once you learn how to do that, you can thread the needle.

Excuse my question .... but where did you get the red line from????

I like to have them to!!!!

In diesem Sinne
Gott mit uns
Frank B. aus K.

MarkShot · 03-13-08, 04:44 PM

I made a mod of mods to do that.

PM me an email address and I will zip it and send it to you. Simple JSGME mod.

Tessa · 03-13-08, 05:04 PM

I've run into a few convoys like that between 43-44 and don't really see the need to make it harder, or add more escorts. By lying in wait virtually like a ghost you achieve a perfect tactical position for an ambush that is going to dish out some major damage. Same as walking into a MG42 nest, sending more squads forward to get gunned down just leads to more body bags, you either get a sniper or start tossing grenades once the position is located. Escorts have to act smarter and can't carpetbomb areas with depth charges.

Even if the escorts find you, they're still at a major disadvantage with friendly fire and creating potential collisions within the convoy. After you empty your tubes you can break for one of the columns and hide under a large noise tanker or such. Even without silent speed you can reload potentially till you've run out (though that usually requires taking out 2-4 of the escorts) from hiding. Though destroyers are nimble ships, maneuvering through the columns to find you makes them slow down and concentrate on moving before they can really start looking for you. Perfect situation is if you can cripple a large target enough that it will eventually get left behind by the convoy. Just hide under him then slip away. Being able to attack a convoy like that is extremely fun, yet still requires a lot of skill to stay safe. It's one of the few major vulnerabilities convoys have, being at the right place at the right time is no coincidence

MarkShot · 03-13-08, 07:21 PM

Well, I am threading the needle again. There is just about about 1km gap between the two leading escorts. If they weren't coming to me, it would be d*m near impossible to hit that gap while doing 1-2kts while they are doing 8-15kts.

The front door is the only way I can see to get in, but it is the front door which isn't locked much better than the anyplace else.

Captain Nemo · 03-14-08, 08:15 AM

Perhaps you are too good!

Your suggestion about deploying 50% of the escorts at the front surely would leave the back door open, even though I agree with you that attacking from astern of the convoy is a much more difficult proposition from a manoeuvrability viewpoint. As you also point out, changing the way the escorts are deployed would not be accurate historically.

I believe that most u-boats made their approach to the convoy from the front, like you describe. Once an attack had been made the escorts immediately put plan Raspberry into operation. This plan was designed to combat u-boats that had sneaked past the escort screen and got in amongst the convoy. It was anticipated that once they had launched their attack the submarines would dive deep and lie silent, allowing the convoy to pass overhead then resurface behind the ships. Plan Raspberry called for the escorts to double back leaving the convoy to sail on. The escorts would then move behind the u-boat's estimated position, turn and in sailing back to rejoin the convoy, cross over where the sub was supposed to be dropping several patterns of depth charges.

If I remember rightly, the other plan the escorts used was called 'Pineapple' or 'Strawberry' can't quite remember which.

Nemo

Keelbuster · 03-14-08, 08:23 AM

Escorts in the front - they get you on the way in. Escorts in the back, they get you on the way out. Either way they get you

MarkShot · 03-14-08, 10:29 AM

The primary mission of the escort is to prevent the U-boat from sinking merchants. Killing the U-boat is just icing on the cake. So, I would argue in favor of making the attack harder even if that makes the escape easier.

I think sweeping the front of the convoy is probably the single most important thing which the escorts can do to prevent attacks. Unlike other subsims, given the limitations on moving any faster than a crawl, the front door is really the only viable option for submerged attack. In other games, you can come in from the flanks at better than a crawl while sacrificing your battery for a shooting position. This just isn't possible with GWX2.

MarkShot · 03-14-08, 10:31 AM

The back door is only open to surface attack. However, the existence of radar and accurate gunnery makes surfaced back door attacks pure suicide.

03-13-08, 04:44 PM	#2
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	I made a mod of mods to do that. PM me an email address and I will zip it and send it to you. Simple JSGME mod. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

03-13-08, 07:21 PM	#4
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	Well, I am threading the needle again. There is just about about 1km gap between the two leading escorts. If they weren't coming to me, it would be d*m near impossible to hit that gap while doing 1-2kts while they are doing 8-15kts. The front door is the only way I can see to get in, but it is the front door which isn't locked much better than the anyplace else. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

03-14-08, 08:15 AM	#5
Captain Nemo Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London, England Posts: 1,144 Downloads: 54 Uploads: 0	Perhaps you are too good! Your suggestion about deploying 50% of the escorts at the front surely would leave the back door open, even though I agree with you that attacking from astern of the convoy is a much more difficult proposition from a manoeuvrability viewpoint. As you also point out, changing the way the escorts are deployed would not be accurate historically. I believe that most u-boats made their approach to the convoy from the front, like you describe. Once an attack had been made the escorts immediately put plan Raspberry into operation. This plan was designed to combat u-boats that had sneaked past the escort screen and got in amongst the convoy. It was anticipated that once they had launched their attack the submarines would dive deep and lie silent, allowing the convoy to pass overhead then resurface behind the ships. Plan Raspberry called for the escorts to double back leaving the convoy to sail on. The escorts would then move behind the u-boat's estimated position, turn and in sailing back to rejoin the convoy, cross over where the sub was supposed to be dropping several patterns of depth charges. If I remember rightly, the other plan the escorts used was called 'Pineapple' or 'Strawberry' can't quite remember which. Nemo __________________ "I'm afraid there is no disguising the fact that King's obsession with the Pacific and the Battle of Washington cost us dear in the Battle of the Atlantic". Sir John Slessor GCB, DSO, MC, DL AOC-in-C Coastal Command RAF ___________________________________________

03-14-08, 08:23 AM	#6
Keelbuster Ace of the Deep Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: BA 72 Posts: 1,092 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Escorts in the front - they get you on the way in. Escorts in the back, they get you on the way out. Either way they get you __________________

03-14-08, 10:29 AM	#7
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	The primary mission of the escort is to prevent the U-boat from sinking merchants. Killing the U-boat is just icing on the cake. So, I would argue in favor of making the attack harder even if that makes the escape easier. I think sweeping the front of the convoy is probably the single most important thing which the escorts can do to prevent attacks. Unlike other subsims, given the limitations on moving any faster than a crawl, the front door is really the only viable option for submerged attack. In other games, you can come in from the flanks at better than a crawl while sacrificing your battery for a shooting position. This just isn't possible with GWX2. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

03-13-08, 05:04 PM	#3
Tessa Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: CG 96 Posts: 861 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	I've run into a few convoys like that between 43-44 and don't really see the need to make it harder, or add more escorts. By lying in wait virtually like a ghost you achieve a perfect tactical position for an ambush that is going to dish out some major damage. Same as walking into a MG42 nest, sending more squads forward to get gunned down just leads to more body bags, you either get a sniper or start tossing grenades once the position is located. Escorts have to act smarter and can't carpetbomb areas with depth charges. Even if the escorts find you, they're still at a major disadvantage with friendly fire and creating potential collisions within the convoy. After you empty your tubes you can break for one of the columns and hide under a large noise tanker or such. Even without silent speed you can reload potentially till you've run out (though that usually requires taking out 2-4 of the escorts) from hiding. Though destroyers are nimble ships, maneuvering through the columns to find you makes them slow down and concentrate on moving before they can really start looking for you. Perfect situation is if you can cripple a large target enough that it will eventually get left behind by the convoy. Just hide under him then slip away. Being able to attack a convoy like that is extremely fun, yet still requires a lot of skill to stay safe. It's one of the few major vulnerabilities convoys have, being at the right place at the right time is no coincidence

03-14-08, 10:31 AM	#8
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	The back door is only open to surface attack. However, the existence of radar and accurate gunnery makes surfaced back door attacks pure suicide. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!