YAR (Yet Another Review) of 1.5

[Ducimus]

stock uboat game is basically like stock sh3, maybe even easier then that. I was looking in the campaign files the other day, and of the three or four allied convoy groups i looked at in the indian ocean, none of them had a single escort. As an aside, TM will not fix anything in the uboat game. Its focused on the pacific game, and some of the AI adjustments only apply to japanese ships, not allied ships , as they use an entirely different sensor suite.

Time the GW folks get to work again. I agree the game is a fantastic basis now. Now all we need is an Atlantic Campaign. The hardest part, I'd imagine is making the Type II and VII playable with all their upgrades.

But I'd also like to see US subs operating in the Atlantic. THe U boat addon gives the whole SHIV game the basics to become "epic". I am really curious how the mods have developed in a year.

[kiwi_2005]

Yea Uboats stock is too easy first time ive wished for a rogue destroyer to come along bent on sinking me making me work overtime to survive. Haven't really had that yet.

[Rockin Robbins]

That the Brits were the great ASW force in the first half of the war. It wasn't until the US jeep carrier hunter-killer groups came around that we Americans could claim any better abilities. To make 1943 American destroyers have the same characteristics as the British ones in the Atlantik would be wrong.

Depth sounder is controllable manually in SH4. Charting tools are all there too.

Hey, you don't belong anywhere near Midway. If you don't stick to finishing your objectives you'll get a little SH4 surprise. We don't have a free-form do whatever you want world here. If you don't complete your objectives you can sink your 100,000 tons and be removed from command! THAT's a welcome change.

I still think SH3 and SH4 are fatally flawed in simulating a U-Boat war that was so dependent on wolfpacks when you are the only U-Boat in the ocean. In that regard, SH4 on the American side is far superior, as American boats acted singly, even in "wolfpacks."

Can't wait for the GWXers to attack SH4UBM! If we can keep them and Ducimus in their respective spheres of operation we'll all be in heaven. I don't think that will be a problem.

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

That the Brits were the great ASW force in the first half of the war. It wasn't until the US jeep carrier hunter-killer groups came around that we Americans could claim any better abilities. To make 1943 American destroyers have the same characteristics as the British ones in the Atlantik would be wrong.

Depth sounder is controllable manually in SH4. Charting tools are all there too.

Hey, you don't belong anywhere near Midway. If you don't stick to finishing your objectives you'll get a little SH4 surprise. We don't have a free-form do whatever you want world here. If you don't complete your objectives you can sink your 100,000 tons and be removed from command! THAT's a welcome change.

I still think SH3 and SH4 are fatally flawed in simulating a U-Boat war that was so dependent on wolfpacks when you are the only U-Boat in the ocean. In that regard, SH4 on the American side is far superior, as American boats acted singly, even in "wolfpacks."

Can't wait for the GWXers to attack SH4UBM! If we can keep them and Ducimus in their respective spheres of operation we'll all be in heaven. I don't think that will be a problem.

Wow, quite a hostile entry. I thought subsim was not as ignorant and nationalistic based as the UBI forums? Figured ppl here were a more mature bunch and might like to have more variety in the game and see a big part of the community becoming as happy as the Pacifictionados? Was a bit wrong maybe.

The U-Boat war was not as dependant on wolfpack tactics as you may think. wolfpacks were only one part of many aspects of the u boat war. It's a great shame it has not been implemented, and played it's part for a time.

But it's not an urgent requirement for a successful and mostly realistic u-boat campaign.

[Trunks420]

The one thing that I would love too see most (and I'm sure I'm not alone) is a new Destroyer Command game. I have no clue as to why ubi has not taken advantages of this. Seeing how DC & SH2 was moderate success. You would think that they would attempt something by now. Oh well, I still hope.....

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Great review. I dont have experience with RSRD as a large mod, I've only used Trigger Maru, but in my opinion, it makes everything alot more realistic.

Now I'm just waiting for them to stop using my Narwhal class as a bloody transport ship

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

Wow, quite a hostile entry. I thought subsim was not as ignorant and nationalistic based as the UBI forums? Figured ppl here were a more mature bunch and might like to have more variety in the game and see a big part of the community becoming as happy as the Pacifictionados? Was a bit wrong maybe.

The U-Boat war was not as dependant on wolfpack tactics as you may think. wolfpacks were only one part of many aspects of the u boat war. It's a great shame it has not been implemented, and played it's part for a time.

But it's not an urgent requirement for a successful and mostly realistic u-boat campaign.

Wow! Instead of logically discussing simple statements of facts, throwing around disparaging terms (ignorant, nationalistic, hostile, Pacifictionados, "figured ppl here were a more mature bunch") substitues for rational thought. I can defend my statements, which are not based on the characteristics implied in parentheses, but there is no defense for rudeness. Let me ignore that and explain one point only.

U-Boats did not carry enough torpedoes to make a meaningful impact on convoys of dozens of ships, if operating alone. Winning the Battle of the Atlantic depended on wolfpacks bringing enough torpedoes to the party to decimate the convoy. Donitz' entire default attack plan was that one U-Boat locates the convoy and shadows, radioing for help. BdU sends it and only after a sufficient number of subs are collected does the attack take place.

For success, the U-Boat war depended on wolfpacks and centralized control. In SH3 there is no centralized control at all, just a free for all, go where you please. This is most unrealistic and simulates nothing beyond single boat handling skills. It is interesting that I've had several nice conversations with Kpt Lehmann where we were in agreement on this point. (we didn't even call each other names!)

The vital function of the wolfpack was to overwhelm the escorts to take out the merchies. No aspect of that takes place when you are a single U-Boat attacking a convoy guarded by 4 to 6 escorts.

SH4UBM fixes half of that by giving you actual missions, sent to you by ComSubPac (that's BdU in pig latin). You are to complete the mission and not go off willy-nilly doing whatever you please or the admiralty relieves you of command. That is a meaningful improvement. I should add that going with an Indian Ocean instead of Atlantic campaign also minimizes the impact of the no wolfpacks problem because any operations there could not collect enough U-Boats to constitute a wolfpack. Imagine! An unrealistic campaign results in more realistic gameplay! Single U-Boat operations actually make sense there.

Please scan your list of perjoratives and either defend their use or abandon them. Those who know me laugh with me.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Keep it civil people.

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Wow! Instead of logically discussing simple statements of facts, throwing around disparaging terms (ignorant, nationalistic, hostile, Pacifictionados, "figured ppl here were a more mature bunch") substitues for rational thought. I can defend my statements, which are not based on the characteristics implied in parentheses, but there is no defense for rudeness. Let me ignore that and explain one point only.

U-Boats did not carry enough torpedoes to make a meaningful impact on convoys of dozens of ships, if operating alone. Winning the Battle of the Atlantic depended on wolfpacks bringing enough torpedoes to the party to decimate the convoy. Donitz' entire default attack plan was that one U-Boat locates the convoy and shadows, radioing for help. BdU sends it and only after a sufficient number of subs are collected does the attack take place.

For success, the U-Boat war depended on wolfpacks and centralized control. In SH3 there is no centralized control at all, just a free for all, go where you please. This is most unrealistic and simulates nothing beyond single boat handling skills. It is interesting that I've had several nice conversations with Kpt Lehmann where we were in agreement on this point. (we didn't even call each other names!)

The vital function of the wolfpack was to overwhelm the escorts to take out the merchies. No aspect of that takes place when you are a single U-Boat attacking a convoy guarded by 4 to 6 escorts.

SH4UBM fixes half of that by giving you actual missions, sent to you by ComSubPac (that's BdU in pig latin). You are to complete the mission and not go off willy-nilly doing whatever you please or the admiralty relieves you of command. That is a meaningful improvement. I should add that going with an Indian Ocean instead of Atlantic campaign also minimizes the impact of the no wolfpacks problem because any operations there could not collect enough U-Boats to constitute a wolfpack. Imagine! An unrealistic campaign results in more realistic gameplay! Single U-Boat operations actually make sense there.

Please scan your list of perjoratives and either defend their use or abandon them. Those who know me laugh with me.

Oi, there we go again. Appears my first impression was valid. What a shame.

P.S. Ys, Dönitz strategy was indeed based on Wolfpacks. But in practice there simply were not enough boats available at any given time to make this a standart "all the time" tactic at all. Boats would gather up in case a Convoi was spotted in due time. After that they'd usually return to their patrol grids.

[Rykaird]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Hey, you don't belong anywhere near Midway. If you don't stick to finishing your objectives you'll get a little SH4 surprise. We don't have a free-form do whatever you want world here. If you don't complete your objectives you can sink your 100,000 tons and be removed from command! THAT's a welcome change.

Thanks for the reply. I would point out however that once you complete your mission objectives you are free to go pirating around as you see fit without any issues with BdU. I have a chest full of medals that attest to this.

This may not be realistic, but hey, there is a lot of fantasy "what if" built into the U-Boat missions. It's also pretty fun. I'm thinking about raiding San Diego next.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Rykaird

Thanks for the reply. I would point out however that once you complete your mission objectives you are free to go pirating around as you see fit without any issues with BdU. I have a chest full of medals that attest to this.

This may not be realistic, but hey, there is a lot of fantasy "what if" built into the U-Boat missions. It's also pretty fun. I'm thinking about raiding San Diego next.

Arrrrrrrrrrr! I actually got a message last night after I completed a mission to seek my own pleasure. That NEVER happened in the US Navy! I'm enjoying life in the Kriegsmarine!