Submarine Attack Course Finder (a.k.a. Is-Was / Banjo) - Page 10

ktrboston · 02-23-08, 01:03 AM

To KLH and Capt. Krunch,
I found your posts very helpfull particually the link KLH posted
http://hosted.filefront.com/khaehl/ and the Capt. Krunch explaination of the Course finder tool. Both where very helpfull. I got more understanding from reading Angriffscheibe_Handbuch. Reading this gave me a better understanding of attacking and fingure out values of the attack(TB, AOB, etc...) Also want to give thanks to all who helped you. Now lets see if I can put it into action! The course finder I made is very crude, but it does the job.

CDR Resser · 02-25-08, 10:09 PM

Thanks for the work on this. I just completed my US Navy Is-Was and its Kriegsmarine equivalent. The templates and instuctions made the process relatively painless.

Respectfully Submitted;
CDR Resser

klh · 02-26-08, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktrboston

To KLH and Capt. Krunch,
I found your posts very helpfull particually the link KLH posted
http://hosted.filefront.com/khaehl/ and the Capt. Krunch explaination of the Course finder tool. Both where very helpfull. I got more understanding from reading Angriffscheibe_Handbuch. Reading this gave me a better understanding of attacking and fingure out values of the attack(TB, AOB, etc...) Also want to give thanks to all who helped you. Now lets see if I can put it into action! The course finder I made is very crude, but it does the job.

You're welcome, and you are right, it was a team effort. Glad it was helpful. I am working on an updated version which should be out in a couple of weeks with more examples (I'm up to 18 now).

klh · 02-26-08, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDR Resser

Thanks for the work on this. I just completed my US Navy Is-Was and its Kriegsmarine equivalent. The templates and instuctions made the process relatively painless.

Respectfully Submitted;
CDR Resser

Congratulations. Don't forget to post a picture. It's fun to see other's workmanship and get some ideas.

patton610 · 11-23-08, 05:43 PM

this may seem silly, but I am building this as a aid for in-class presentation as part of a paper, and am unsure if all the plates are moveable or if certain ones are fixed to one another. I am particularly concerned about the two largest plates on the back-side. please help remedy my stupidity,
Thanks

The Joker · 11-24-08, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patton610

this may seem silly, but I am building this as a aid for in-class presentation as part of a paper, and am unsure if all the plates are moveable or if certain ones are fixed to one another. I am particularly concerned about the two largest plates on the back-side. please help remedy my stupidity,<br />
Thanks

All of the discs turn independently, for both tools. If you're making both tools you can fix them together, back-to-back by laminating the bottom disc of each tool together. Also, make sure that when you print the Attack Course Finder, that you print the C disc on transparency, NOT the P disc. The P disc goes right under the C disc. I mixed up the two the first time. If that doesn't make sense, I can post some pictures if you need me too.

patton610 · 11-24-08, 05:27 PM

Thanks I have everything done done except fastening the disc together. I terrified of missaligning the disc when I attach them. KLH said he used a drill, then a nut, bolt, and washers. the "time in minutes" disc and the very top two on the front are transparencies, the rest are laminated paper. I am a bit worried that a drill might melt some of it...and most, well all hole punches I have seen will not reach.

don1reed · 11-24-08, 05:33 PM

I used an ice pick heated on the stove to burn/punch through. Worked like a charm. Caveat: go slow.

11-24-08, 11:30 PM

I used an awl, it has a sharp point so you can get it to penetrate right at the center of the X. I used round head fasteners(brass, 1 inch) from Staples to provide the axis/axle.

Urge

sckallst · 11-29-08, 05:52 PM

Made myself an "is-was" yesterday using the great stuff from the Cap'n and Hitman and the advice of others contained in teh posts here. Used laminated cardstock for first three layers of the front side and the bottom two layers of the back side. Cut up the plastic overlay layer from an old poster frame for the transparent layers. Printed the periscope and 'time in minutes' layers on clear stickers, adhered them to the thin plastic and then laminated them as well.

Carfully lined everything up, put the holes in and assembled with a short nut and bolt forming the spindle/axis. Happy with the alignment, I disassembled. Cut a piece of foam poster board as a backing material, then glued the base layers of the front side to that and made a hole for the bolt. Trimmed the poster board to fit, aligned and glued the back side base to the poster board. Reassembled and put into action.

Pulled into Surabaya on Jan 2, 1942 and earned my first RFB 100% realism Silver Star.

Coincidence? I think not.

Only 'mistake' I made was failing to heed the advice of others and put a proper 'handle' on the 'enemy vessel' card to get around the issue of that card being the same size as teh scope. Easy enough to fix if I feel the need. Adding the posterboard 'sandwich' layer really gave the thing a tiny bit of heft and a good deal of sturdiness. Also, with the thicker middle layer, I'm able to use one of those spring type paper clips as a sort of clamp to keep the B layer 'locked in' so that it doesn't want to move around when I move the enemy or periscope layers.

Thanks again guys for the guidance and inspiration. For anybody wanting to take the plunge and make one of these, it's really pretty easy, and it's a satisfying little project to complete.

Question:

Can anybody better explain the use of the squares on the enemy card and ticks on the periscope card. I think I 'got' the first answer in the doumentation, but I'm having a hard time seeing exaclty how these things work. I'm pretty good at graphical plotting anyway, but I'd like to know more about how this thing works.

jmr · 03-12-09, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sckallst

Can anybody better explain the use of the squares on the enemy card and ticks on the periscope card. I think I 'got' the first answer in the doumentation, but I'm having a hard time seeing exaclty how these things work. I'm pretty good at graphical plotting anyway, but I'd like to know more about how this thing works.

I'm a bit confused about the squares as well despite reading the example problem a few times over.

joegrundman · 03-12-09, 05:54 AM

The squares are very simple - it's a way of making very quick distance estimates

assume you have the thing set up to represent the situation

You take a range reading - let's say it's an easy number, 5000m.

you'll note that on the periscope layer there are 5 divisions between you and the target, so in our example each division represents 1000m

The shortest distance to target track is this distance here:

you can see this is 3,500m given that each square represents 1000m

If you doing a normal intercept course (holding the target to a 90 degree bearing) the following shows the approximate distance

which is about 5000m in this case

Remember, YOU assign the range value of each square to be convenient after you have your range reading.

Using this you can then calculate how far you need to move to be ready to strike the target

berobispo · 09-13-09, 08:07 PM

I just printed and build my KM wiz wheel

. Trying your Passive Sonar Approach, joegrundman, I didn't work out how to adjust the observed change in bearing (after slowing down/accelerating) in the KM version. I have a version from KLH that has angle of bow on the outermost ring. On the middle ring there is range and speed. It does not have several bearing scales in the middle ring, as does your in-game version of the KM wiz-wheel. Is there a way to convert small degrees into the large 1-90° of my wiz-wheel or is there a new version that resembles the SCAF?

Pisces · 09-14-09, 11:54 AM

The disks you see in the pictures of Joegrundman here above, are equivalent to the other side of your KM Attack disk. Except the KM disk does not have that square grid on it to judge distances graphically. The side you are talking about can only be used for multiplying/dividing angles, speeds, distances and times. The side in the images above only for manipulating (adding/subtracting) courses and (periscope-) bearings. They work completely different and those scales cannot be mixed. All you can do is memorize the number and locate it in the scale on the other side.

Fish40 · 10-18-10, 07:30 PM

I hate to dig up an ancient thread but the link for the speed determination side of this tool is dead. I have the course and AOB side. Does anyone have it?

02-23-08, 01:03 AM	#136
ktrboston Gunner Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: quincy, ma Posts: 100 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	just a thanks To KLH and Capt. Krunch, I found your posts very helpfull particually the link KLH posted http://hosted.filefront.com/khaehl/ and the Capt. Krunch explaination of the Course finder tool. Both where very helpfull. I got more understanding from reading Angriffscheibe_Handbuch. Reading this gave me a better understanding of attacking and fingure out values of the attack(TB, AOB, etc...) Also want to give thanks to all who helped you. Now lets see if I can put it into action! The course finder I made is very crude, but it does the job. __________________ Kapitan Clauus on a 5 day shakedown patrol. New crew, new Kapitan waiting for results. Using GWX 3.0

02-25-08, 10:09 PM	#137
CDR Resser Lieutenant Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Submerged ahead Posts: 252 Downloads: 72 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the work on this. I just completed my US Navy Is-Was and its Kriegsmarine equivalent. The templates and instuctions made the process relatively painless. Respectfully Submitted; CDR Resser __________________ Holy Equestrian Order of Saint John Moses Sometimes, in war, there is an inverse moral. The greater the performance, the harsher the consequence. R.H. O'Kane

11-24-08, 05:33 PM	#143
don1reed Ace of the Deep Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Valhalla: Silent Generation Posts: 1,149 Downloads: 910 Uploads: 0	I used an ice pick heated on the stove to burn/punch through. Worked like a charm. Caveat: go slow. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~ George Orwell

03-12-09, 05:54 AM	#147
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	The squares are very simple - it's a way of making very quick distance estimates assume you have the thing set up to represent the situation You take a range reading - let's say it's an easy number, 5000m. you'll note that on the periscope layer there are 5 divisions between you and the target, so in our example each division represents 1000m The shortest distance to target track is this distance here: you can see this is 3,500m given that each square represents 1000m If you doing a normal intercept course (holding the target to a 90 degree bearing) the following shows the approximate distance which is about 5000m in this case Remember, YOU assign the range value of each square to be convenient after you have your range reading. Using this you can then calculate how far you need to move to be ready to strike the target __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill

09-13-09, 08:07 PM	#148
berobispo Helmsman Join Date: May 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 102 Downloads: 174 Uploads: 4	I just printed and build my KM wiz wheel. Trying your Passive Sonar Approach, joegrundman, I didn't work out how to adjust the observed change in bearing (after slowing down/accelerating) in the KM version. I have a version from KLH that has angle of bow on the outermost ring. On the middle ring there is range and speed. It does not have several bearing scales in the middle ring, as does your in-game version of the KM wiz-wheel. Is there a way to convert small degrees into the large 1-90° of my wiz-wheel or is there a new version that resembles the SCAF?

11-23-08, 05:43 PM	#140
patton610 Swabbie Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: texas Posts: 13 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	this may seem silly, but I am building this as a aid for in-class presentation as part of a paper, and am unsure if all the plates are moveable or if certain ones are fixed to one another. I am particularly concerned about the two largest plates on the back-side. please help remedy my stupidity, Thanks

11-24-08, 05:27 PM	#142
patton610 Swabbie Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: texas Posts: 13 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Thanks I have everything done done except fastening the disc together. I terrified of missaligning the disc when I attach them. KLH said he used a drill, then a nut, bolt, and washers. the "time in minutes" disc and the very top two on the front are transparencies, the rest are laminated paper. I am a bit worried that a drill might melt some of it...and most, well all hole punches I have seen will not reach.

11-24-08, 11:30 PM	#144
Urge Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I used an awl, it has a sharp point so you can get it to penetrate right at the center of the X. I used round head fasteners(brass, 1 inch) from Staples to provide the axis/axle. Urge

11-29-08, 05:52 PM	#145
sckallst Bosun Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 64 Downloads: 116 Uploads: 0	Made myself an "is-was" yesterday using the great stuff from the Cap'n and Hitman and the advice of others contained in teh posts here. Used laminated cardstock for first three layers of the front side and the bottom two layers of the back side. Cut up the plastic overlay layer from an old poster frame for the transparent layers. Printed the periscope and 'time in minutes' layers on clear stickers, adhered them to the thin plastic and then laminated them as well. Carfully lined everything up, put the holes in and assembled with a short nut and bolt forming the spindle/axis. Happy with the alignment, I disassembled. Cut a piece of foam poster board as a backing material, then glued the base layers of the front side to that and made a hole for the bolt. Trimmed the poster board to fit, aligned and glued the back side base to the poster board. Reassembled and put into action. Pulled into Surabaya on Jan 2, 1942 and earned my first RFB 100% realism Silver Star. Coincidence? I think not. Only 'mistake' I made was failing to heed the advice of others and put a proper 'handle' on the 'enemy vessel' card to get around the issue of that card being the same size as teh scope. Easy enough to fix if I feel the need. Adding the posterboard 'sandwich' layer really gave the thing a tiny bit of heft and a good deal of sturdiness. Also, with the thicker middle layer, I'm able to use one of those spring type paper clips as a sort of clamp to keep the B layer 'locked in' so that it doesn't want to move around when I move the enemy or periscope layers. Thanks again guys for the guidance and inspiration. For anybody wanting to take the plunge and make one of these, it's really pretty easy, and it's a satisfying little project to complete. Question: Can anybody better explain the use of the squares on the enemy card and ticks on the periscope card. I think I 'got' the first answer in the doumentation, but I'm having a hard time seeing exaclty how these things work. I'm pretty good at graphical plotting anyway, but I'd like to know more about how this thing works.

09-14-09, 11:54 AM	#149
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	The disks you see in the pictures of Joegrundman here above, are equivalent to the other side of your KM Attack disk. Except the KM disk does not have that square grid on it to judge distances graphically. The side you are talking about can only be used for multiplying/dividing angles, speeds, distances and times. The side in the images above only for manipulating (adding/subtracting) courses and (periscope-) bearings. They work completely different and those scales cannot be mixed. All you can do is memorize the number and locate it in the scale on the other side. __________________ My site downloads: https://ricojansen.nl/downloads

10-18-10, 07:30 PM	#150
Fish40 The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yonkers, NY U.S.A. Posts: 1,507 Downloads: 154 Uploads: 0	I hate to dig up an ancient thread but the link for the speed determination side of this tool is dead. I have the course and AOB side. Does anyone have it?