This is getting ridiclous!

[gimpy117]

Im the captain of the USS Gar

it's early 1942

and, I AM UNDER CONSTANT AIRCRAFT ATTACKS!!!

they are so frequent that i can't even charge batteries!!!

Help!! Ive got the air search radar and that can't even save me they just keep coming for me and im still over 800 MN from Japan.

How can i get rid of the planes!?

[Lagger123987]

Use the search funtion to find threads about lessing the air strikes.

[gimpy117]

yeah it's getting really bad, it's patrol 2 and i can't get away!!!

[mookiemookie]

If you're spotted by aircraft, you'll invite more air strikes along your projected course. Try changing course and submerging for a while.

[tomoose]

If you're using the stock game then your problem will not go away, the air attacks are completely out of whack. Get Trigger Maru or one of the other major mods, they have tweaked the air attacks to a more realistic level.

[gimpy117]

well i turned the "defalt attack prob" from 10 to .2 and it seems to work.
i saw 2 planes the rest of the way and they missed me luckily!

[Go4It]

Except 4 the speed of some of the aircraft I find the stock air traffic good. If ur spotted by enemy aircraft their gonna patrol that area like flies on sh*t!!! Ounce ur radar spots an aircraft DIVE an stay there for an hour or two, resuface an continue patrol at reduced speed to recharge batteries. I don't use all of TM, just bits an pieces 'cause there's NO readme explaining what each file does an I CAN'T put something in my system without knowing what it does.

[joegrundman]

I was the captain of the USS Gar too. My radar for some reason didn't give me warning of a Japanese plane on a pre-dawn patrol and i got hit badly amidships before i could complete my crash dive to safety.

I decided to head for home but came across another plane. This time radar did detect it, so i dived down but was wary of diving too deep with 75% damage. I only went to 120 feet.

I can now say with confidence that 120 feet is not deep enough to be invisible to planes. I got hit underwater. Damage was 100%. I hit blow ballast, but that was it. USS Gar was lost at sea, it said with all hands lost, but this is not the case.

I managed to reach the surface and although 8 men were killed in the explosion the others all got into the sea. 3 men died of hypothermia the others were picked up by a Japanese sub chaser. Another 8 died in captivity, 1 in the Hiroshima blast, the rest made it home.

Ok i made that last paragraph up, but it's true that planes can spot you at 120 feet with TM

[Capn_Sinky]

I picked up planes before on radar an I use the TA feature and plot them like I plot ships and if they are far enough away I won't dive. Ill let them pass. If you click on the plane it will show a ring arould it. That is their visual search radius and your pretty safe if your just outside of it. Depending on sea conditions I've even clipped the edge of it and still wasn't spotted. If you've ever played flightsim you know flying over the ocean and trying to search for anything smaller than a DE is pretty hard. You've got to be really close like under 5 miles before u can pick out small targets like a DE. The fleet boats are even smaller than that, not much sticking up to see. The wake is what reall gives you away to aircarft. You have to be aware of the sea conditions. If the surface is is smooth like glass they can spot your wake from long distance. The rougher the surface the harder it is to find the wake. If the flies start swarming then dive and run at 3kts, till dark and then surface and run at standard until batteries are charged and then go to full or flank speed to make up distance.

[-Pv-]

I have no trouble with planes in the stock game. They are not completely out of wack. Don't let even one plane spot you and they won't track you or call in their friends. Keep in mind plane(s) which passed you outgoing will cross your path again returning, so USE PATIENCE. 100ft IS deep enough to remain undetected at low speed if you get there soon enough.

2 knots at 100 ft, change course away from land bases, stay there until AT LEAST one hour after sunset and your plane plague will be over. You can surface (use deck awash for the 1st half hour just in case) and at 1/3 speed you'll charge your batteries in a few hours. When using deck awash, planes have to get a LOT closer for them to see you and you can submerge twice as fast. Perfect for charging batteries while lowering your risk.
No mods, tweaks necessary for this to work.
-Pv-

[Rockin Robbins]

You do not fight airplanes. You submerge immediately upon detection and do not let them know of your existance. No mod will change the outcome if you are foolish enough to do battle with planes. They call their friends to the party and you are the cake.

This is realistic in 1942 as the Japanese had total mastery of the air at that time. Remember Pearl Harbor?

[Captain Vlad]

[PBS Narrarator]

The Seadragon is a nocturnal creature, often submerging to lazily while away the daylight hours, creeping along the bottom and listening with her sharp ears.

At night, however, the dragon emerges from her briny slumber to stalk the surface, safe from her wingborne predators, but a danger to all else she comes across.

[/PBS Narrarator]

[Rockin Robbins]

The PBS narrator doesn't live in a submarine then. Or maybe he was relieved of command for mistaking a war for a place to find a nice secure hidey-hole so he didn't have to fight. In either event, staying submerged during the day is suicidal, as the planes can see you underwater and you have no way of detecting them.

Even if you stay below their detection depth (you'd have to be below 150' or perhaps 200' to cover all possible conditions) you expose yourself for a prolonged amount of time during surfacing and submerging to that depth. During that time you have no way to know that the attacker is even there.

If you live to surface at night, your batteries are in no condition to attack and evade. You must charge them first, a multi-hour procedure. So you have not only thrown away any daytime opportunities for location of the enemy, you have sabotaged your own nighttime fighting ability. The admiral will not be pleased. This is a war where you are expected to seek and engage the enemy.

Let's talk about odds. This is a numbers game, right? What do you think the odds are of a plane able to detect you during the several minutes each day while you are submerging to or surfacing from the safe depth? One out of a thousand? Sounds pretty safe, but I tell you that is a certainty of death. If you only dive only once per day, that is two time periods per day that you are exposed to that one per thousand chance. In 500 days you are dead. (1/1000 x 2 x 500 = 1) That is gross oversimplification, but the concept holds true that any odds greater than zero means a certainty that the event will happen. 1/1000 is not acceptable risk when repeated without end.

A much more acceptable and safe procedure is to stay on the surface every possible moment. When you detect a plane by radar, plot it just like a ship. If its path takes it within 5 miles of your sub, submerge just before he enters that radius to 150' or 200' for five minutes. Immediately surface to radar depth and note the position of the plane. Assuming he is going away and outside the 5 mile radius, surface and resume. This way, you are in control of your fate to the maximum possible extent. You retain a constant awareness of your combat situation and with that awareness comes security. Knowledge is not just power, in war it is life itself. Hiding your head in the proverbial sand is just rehearsal for your permanent condition there.

[Doolittle81]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

....
...staying submerged during the day is suicidal, as the planes can see you underwater and you have no way of detecting them.
...

A much more acceptable and safe procedure is to stay on the surface every possible moment. When you detect a plane by radar, plot it just like a ship. If its path takes it within 5 miles of your sub, submerge just before he enters that radius to 150' or 200' for five minutes. Immediately surface to radar depth and note the position of the plane...

.... Knowledge is not just power, in war it is life itself....

Your analysis of statistical probabilities is subject to challenge, but putting that aside...Let's look at closing times...one example: An A6M2 at a very casual cruise speed putzing along at, say, 210 MPH could cover that 5.0 mile distance in just 90 seconds. If it were at full throttle, say, 330 MPH, it would be on you in 60 seconds. My SH4 experience shows a "Crash" dive to 150-200 feet taking about 75 seconds. A Betty bomber could be on you similarly in 75 seconds, give or take, given that it was flying at 260Mph.

So...theoretically, if your lookouts always spotted the enemy aircraft early/first, it does look as if you could probably get down to your safe depth....probably... Roll the dice! Of course, if you get spotted, even though you may make to down to your safe depth, hanging down there for Five minutes as you propose might not resolve your problem. An aircraft could loiter for considerable time, certainly a lot longer than 5 minutes, and depending on distance to home base call for reinforcements as well. Once again, the tactic you propose would seem to carry what some would consider an unacceptable degree of risk.

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

....submerge just before he enters that radius to 150' or 200' for five minutes. Immediately surface to radar depth and note the position of the plane. Assuming he is going away and outside the 5 mile radius, surface and resume...

What happens if the enemly aircraft is directly overhead when you pop up to radar depth???

I may have misunderstood your logic...

[Rockin Robbins]

Upon detection of tha airplane by radar, I draw a 5 nm circle around my boat. When the plane nears the 5 mile radius I submerge. I'd estimate I probably begin submerging when the plane(s) are 7 to 8 miles away. I never crash dive, but just hit the "d" key at ahead 2/3, same as my surface cruising speed. I've never been detected in hundreds of submersions with that safety margin or I would have adjusted the radius. Since the plane has no reason to loiter, it does not. They don't even know I'm there. Remember the plan is to be gone before you are detected because if they detect you, they call their friends and play pin the tail on the donkey. You are the donkey and you do not have fun at their party.

I have come to radar depth when planes were still in the circle for some reason and just returned to depth for a couple of minutes. I used to search with the periscope, but found that I missed planes that way and gave them more time to spot me than if I just came up to radar depth and used the radar. It takes a little bit of time for the plane to see the submarine unless it is on direct course and I pop up in front of the plane.That hasn't happened yet, and I haven't been bombed from premature popups.

I have been bombed on approach to target at periscope depth by Ducimus' evil planes, so I know they're perfectly capable of tagging me. I don't claim my method is totally risk free, just much more risk free than staying submerged all day. Risk and war are good friends and always travel together.

But my methods are based on hundreds of successful plane evasions over sixteen cruises, not just doing the numbers. They work very well and I haven't had any reason to change them. I believe that by limiting dive times that severely you retain a valid picture of your environment at all times, enhancing your chance for survival while maximizing the number of square miles you can search for targets. This results in more enemies sunk.

As far as the enemy is concerned, a submarine hiding all day is the same as a sunk submarine: no danger for the day. Hiding is providing aid and comfort to the enemy and every bit as reprehensible as hiding on the battlefield, letting your buddies get killed while you might poke your nose out if the shooting stops. Stealth is not the same as hiding. Stealth is a tool of attack. Hiding is a tool of cowardice.