Vladimir Putin's Nuclear threat to the west - Page 3

Kazuaki Shimazaki II · 02-16-08, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Exact crush depths are classified anyway, I heard rumours that the Traffie can go near 2000ft which is just insane depths for an SSN.

Near? That can mean anywhere from 1500-1999. But anyway, if they use HY-130, they have a chance for a ~3000 foot crush depth just like the Akulas (corresponding to the 600m test). The British use about 1.75 as their safety factor IIRC, so that translates to 1715 feet of test depth.

Quote:

The Alfa, Mike and Sierra classes could go damn deep but in the Alfas case it was damn noisey,

It wasn't like it would have been less noisy if it hadn't dove as deep.

sonar732 · 02-16-08, 09:19 AM

Ok...let's get back on the topic of Putin and his threats.

The timeline is just too close.

On the 3rd, Poland agrees to the US Missile Defense Shield, for the past 3 months they carried out exercises in mutliple fleet operation zones (Atlantic, Med, Pacific, and Artic Oceans).

On the 12th, Putin makes a statement that "It's frightening not just to talk about this, but even to think about, that in response to such deployment, the possibility of such deployments - and one can't theoretically exclude these deployments - that Russia will have to point its warheads at Ukrainian territory".

Finally, on the 15th, he stated after 'throwing a fit' "We have a ready-made plan and we know what we are going to do".

So...with all of these cards on the table, let's look at the results.

Oberon · 02-16-08, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Exact crush depths are classified anyway, I heard rumours that the Traffie can go near 2000ft which is just insane depths for an SSN.

Near? That can mean anywhere from 1500-1999. But anyway, if they use HY-130, they have a chance for a ~3000 foot crush depth just like the Akulas (corresponding to the 600m test). The British use about 1.75 as their safety factor IIRC, so that translates to 1715 feet of test depth.

Quote:

The Alfa, Mike and Sierra classes could go damn deep but in the Alfas case it was damn noisey,

It wasn't like it would have been less noisy if it hadn't dove as deep.

Aaaah, yeah 1715 ft sounds about right to what I heard

Another problem with the Alfa was that damned power plant

bradclark1 · 02-16-08, 11:03 AM

ASAT History
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_securit...-programs.html

Sea Demon · 02-16-08, 07:26 PM

Here's an interesting transcript about the upcoming SM-3 attempt.

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcrip...nscriptid=4145

Obviously the US is not going to come out and threaten Putin's ability to launch missile attacks. But it's hard not to think that Putin can't see that if this system works, or is being worked on to this degree, there will be challenges faced.

sonar732 · 02-17-08, 10:20 AM

Ok everyone...the first part has taken place...sit back and let's keep the civility as time goes by.

Kosovo Declares Independance

Fox News Coverage

Has pictures of Kosovo Albanians holding British and American flags.
CNN Coverage

Skybird · 02-17-08, 10:42 AM

As expected. But I think Kosovo has turned more Albanian than independant. More important, it is a late total victory for islamic land-taking. In a medium- and long range perspective, for the West it is set to prove to be a pyrrhus victory only, and it is not worth the row it has created with Moscow. The US and the EU may have piushed for this move together, yes - but the consequences will affect Europe exclusively. Wishing wisely is an art. The West does not excel in it, but is like a kid in a store full of sweets.

Oberon · 02-17-08, 12:34 PM

Yes, we never were good at looking at things in the long term, the Treaty of Versailles is a good example of that...

sonar732 · 02-17-08, 01:22 PM

Russia's Ministry Response

BBC Coverage

bradclark1 · 02-17-08, 02:12 PM

Quote:

It has warned that recognition of Kosovo by the United States and other nations would encourage separatists in the former Soviet Union, across Europe and around the world.

They do have a point and plus it would turn into an Islamic state which terrorists would base out of. Thats my take on it anyway.
What the west needs to do is have more sex which equals more babies which equals more citizens with western democratic values. So have at it.

XabbaRus · 02-17-08, 03:14 PM

And let loose the dogs of war.
This is *******ed up. Liberal wussies in the EU banging on about self determintation at all costs. Well Lets see if they recognise N. Osettia and Abkhazia.

As for the targetting of nukes, as if they were detargetted. Rhetoric to spook the wes and its working. Russia is in a position of strength with regards energy flows etc. Maybe the EU should listen to Russia sometimes.

Skybird · 02-17-08, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradclark1

Quote:

It has warned that recognition of Kosovo by the United States and other nations would encourage separatists in the former Soviet Union, across Europe and around the world.

They do have a point and plus it would turn into an Islamic state which terrorists would base out of. Thats my take on it anyway.
What the west needs to do is have more sex which equals more babies which equals more citizens with western democratic values. So have at it.

Make love, not war!

Stanny · 02-17-08, 04:08 PM

Yeah,yeah...of course.

Russians should dress and equip their poor and hungry soldiers first,before they can initially start posing any threat to U.S. and NATO.

Russia is very weak compared to U.S.A. both in economic and military,as well social and all other aspects.Military equipment is extremely out-dated,they have only 12 4++ generation SU-35 fighters while USAF has already got 100 5th generation F-22s,they have several SSBNs in service while US NAVY has about 20 Ohios with much more powerful Trident ICBMs,they have several SSNs in service,while US NAVY has 50 688 and 688i Los Angeles,3 Seawof,4 Virginias and dozens of new Virginias to be completed.

Where do you see any threat?Russian goverment is capable of threatening and terrorising their own people and citizens only.

CCIP · 02-17-08, 04:20 PM

Unfortunately I have to agree with you.

Why Russia hasn't gone to a proper professional army is probably a mystery to most people (and to me, except for the fact that they get a lot of free labour by concripting young men like this). This is something they'll need to do to get their armed forces in shape.

Skybird · 02-17-08, 04:26 PM

Military power is not all power. And only sometimes - sometimes - it is the most important of all powers. There is relations, strategic direct and indirect influence. Capital. Ressources, energy. Access to and ability of controlling traffic (vehicles, goods, finances, ressources flow). A hand in another nations's economy. Influencing intenational corporations operating supra-national. that's why China can only in it's own sphere of influence, near it's costal waters, compete with the US navy - and nevertheless overtaking the Us in international power. Russia also is back - without neeeding to be a military equal. Finally, both nations are unattackable for the US.

Why always this tendency to underestimate the other - and getting surprised badly? how little it takes to paralyse the superior military power of the US you can currently see in Afghanistan, and Iraq. Nothing to learn from that?

02-16-08, 11:03 AM	#34
bradclark1 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Connecticut, USA. Posts: 2,794 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	ASAT History http://www.ucsusa.org/global_securit...-programs.html __________________

02-16-08, 07:26 PM	#35
Sea Demon Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,552 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Here's an interesting transcript about the upcoming SM-3 attempt. http://www.defenselink.mil/transcrip...nscriptid=4145 Obviously the US is not going to come out and threaten Putin's ability to launch missile attacks. But it's hard not to think that Putin can't see that if this system works, or is being worked on to this degree, there will be challenges faced. Last edited by Sea Demon; 02-16-08 at 08:10 PM.

02-17-08, 10:42 AM	#37
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,650 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	As expected. But I think Kosovo has turned more Albanian than independant. More important, it is a late total victory for islamic land-taking. In a medium- and long range perspective, for the West it is set to prove to be a pyrrhus victory only, and it is not worth the row it has created with Moscow. The US and the EU may have piushed for this move together, yes - but the consequences will affect Europe exclusively. Wishing wisely is an art. The West does not excel in it, but is like a kid in a store full of sweets. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-17-08, 03:14 PM	#41
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	And let loose the dogs of war. This is *******ed up. Liberal wussies in the EU banging on about self determintation at all costs. Well Lets see if they recognise N. Osettia and Abkhazia. As for the targetting of nukes, as if they were detargetted. Rhetoric to spook the wes and its working. Russia is in a position of strength with regards energy flows etc. Maybe the EU should listen to Russia sometimes. __________________

02-17-08, 04:20 PM	#44
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	Unfortunately I have to agree with you. Why Russia hasn't gone to a proper professional army is probably a mystery to most people (and to me, except for the fact that they get a lot of free labour by concripting young men like this). This is something they'll need to do to get their armed forces in shape. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

02-16-08, 09:19 AM	#32
sonar732 The Old Man Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Central MO Posts: 1,562 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Ok...let's get back on the topic of Putin and his threats. The timeline is just too close. On the 3rd, Poland agrees to the US Missile Defense Shield, for the past 3 months they carried out exercises in mutliple fleet operation zones (Atlantic, Med, Pacific, and Artic Oceans). On the 12th, Putin makes a statement that "It's frightening not just to talk about this, but even to think about, that in response to such deployment, the possibility of such deployments - and one can't theoretically exclude these deployments - that Russia will have to point its warheads at Ukrainian territory". Finally, on the 15th, he stated after 'throwing a fit' "We have a ready-made plan and we know what we are going to do". So...with all of these cards on the table, let's look at the results.

02-17-08, 10:20 AM	#36
sonar732 The Old Man Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Central MO Posts: 1,562 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Ok everyone...the first part has taken place...sit back and let's keep the civility as time goes by. Kosovo Declares Independance Fox News Coverage Has pictures of Kosovo Albanians holding British and American flags. CNN Coverage

02-17-08, 12:34 PM	#38
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Yes, we never were good at looking at things in the long term, the Treaty of Versailles is a good example of that...

02-17-08, 01:22 PM	#39
sonar732 The Old Man Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Central MO Posts: 1,562 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Russia's Ministry Response BBC Coverage

02-17-08, 04:08 PM	#43
Stanny Loader Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 88 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Yeah,yeah...of course. Russians should dress and equip their poor and hungry soldiers first,before they can initially start posing any threat to U.S. and NATO. Russia is very weak compared to U.S.A. both in economic and military,as well social and all other aspects.Military equipment is extremely out-dated,they have only 12 4++ generation SU-35 fighters while USAF has already got 100 5th generation F-22s,they have several SSBNs in service while US NAVY has about 20 Ohios with much more powerful Trident ICBMs,they have several SSNs in service,while US NAVY has 50 688 and 688i Los Angeles,3 Seawof,4 Virginias and dozens of new Virginias to be completed. Where do you see any threat?Russian goverment is capable of threatening and terrorising their own people and citizens only.

02-17-08, 04:26 PM	#45
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,650 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Military power is not all power. And only sometimes - sometimes - it is the most important of all powers. There is relations, strategic direct and indirect influence. Capital. Ressources, energy. Access to and ability of controlling traffic (vehicles, goods, finances, ressources flow). A hand in another nations's economy. Influencing intenational corporations operating supra-national. that's why China can only in it's own sphere of influence, near it's costal waters, compete with the US navy - and nevertheless overtaking the Us in international power. Russia also is back - without neeeding to be a military equal. Finally, both nations are unattackable for the US. Why always this tendency to underestimate the other - and getting surprised badly? how little it takes to paralyse the superior military power of the US you can currently see in Afghanistan, and Iraq. Nothing to learn from that? __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.