The Archbishop of Canterbury has lost his mind...

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by STEED

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/dmp..._answer1=61228

Hey hook hands your out of a job. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

As of 7pm today.

Poll from the same source, one week ago:

Is Rowan Williams fit to be archbishop of Canterbury?

1 Yes
9%

2 No
91%

[STEED]

Case closed.


I am spot on again.


Let me look in to my..................................

[Dan D]

In England you can observe the development of an “angrezi shariat” (English Sharia)
(source: David Pearl/Werner Menski, Muslim Family Law, 3. ed. London 1998, pp. 3-81.)
That is law influenced by Islam and which is existing within the scope of the English legal system.
The application of Islamic law opens within the framework of the so-called optional civil law (public law and penal law are not optional). Muslims in England are maintaining Islamic family law provisions, e.g. make Islamic matrimonial contracts, also Islamic commercial law.
The Establishment of an Islamic theocratic parallel state that way is legally not possible.
If the application of Islamic rules would lead to results that are not compatible with the principles of the English public order, the English public order excludes the application of Islamic rules.
You would have void contracts, e,g,which sucks, so you better make sure that your contracts that don't get sacked.

[QUOTE=

Prime Minister Gordon Brown's spokesman immediately rejected Williams' proposal.
"The prime minister believes British law should apply in this country, based on British values," said Michael Ellam.
[/QUOTE]

"believes, that should apply", what a pussy!

He could have said: “I want to make clear in advance that the English standards of human rights, democracy and the rule of law are untouchable without any exception. That said, we accept/do not accept Islamic rules within the Islamic community, as long as compatible with English legal thinking, because it helps/hinders immigration”.
And so on, immigration debate follows.

[Skybird]

Typical Western nonsens self-deception that does not want to see the real nature of it and thinks it is more clever than it.

Many people call themselves Muslim, but in reality already have abandoned it, and stick to it by labels only for reasons of habit - don't think I do not know that. what do you tell them if they have left their originoa countries and came to euripe - just for the reaosn of avoiding sharia laws and it's inlfuence - and now must realöise that the West without need and without reason becomes more and more accepting of it, too...? This makes mockery of all those who left their countries fpr just this: ro eascape and flee from Islam. A large ethnic group doing like this for example are Iranian "burgoise" going to america and Germany - if you think all Iranians are just hysteric maniacs, then you better think twice. And now you want to give them what at least some of them saw as a reason to leave their former homes?

I can only recommend everybody to trule learn and understand what the Shria is. Embedded in the hadith (not the quran), it is a tool that is meant to protect the unity of faith by lectuzring and sanctioning people accordingly, so that they do not look outside of it and of the Quran. It is a totalitarian educational system, amongst others. It is anti-humanistic, anti-democratic, and basing on an order of values from many, many centuries ago. Why should any sane Westerner feel the wish to tolerate the implementation of such a bad thing inside it's own community into which foreigners are expected to integrate themselves into, instead of isolating themselves, forming a "Little Iran" in america or a "Little Turkey" in Germany, or a "Pakistantown" in England? To allow that is no effort towards integration , it is the total and complete opposite: it helps segragation.

From perspective of "orthodox" Islam, it addtionally is an invitation to press on, and a sign of wekaness and willingness to surrender soon.

If you want to strengthen and raise segragated islamic subcultures in the West that sooner or later will collide with new Western constitutional orders of nations - go ahead, allow Sharia. You have been warned, and if you voluntarily choose it, you do not derseve anything better.

To sell away so headlessly and for cheap your freedom and liberties and our definition and understanding of the dignity of man (the very first paragraph in the german consitution says that dignity of man is untouchable), is only possible because so many people do not know and have no experience what it is to live without liberty, unfree, and being violated in one's own dignity . - In other words: it needs unknowing idiots and fools to act so idiotic and foolishly. not before Westerners have lost it all thy will start to realise what it was that they have given so away so follishly. But then it will be too late.

The Quran black on white demands Muslims to systematically discriminate Christzian and Jewish infidels, and tolerate them in that inferior status of slavery only if they submit and accept that and pay protection money and are kept away from the rights of equal men and citizenship- else they, like members of other religoons as well, must be killed. How could any sane man in the west wish to support the sharia then, and to tolerate such an ideology and it's demands to be the leader of the world, to wipe out all that is impure (=not Islamic), and to take advantage of all what itself has not done one act to create and to built?

To me, all this political correct tolerance for what under no circumstances should be tolerated, is pure masochism. Shame on the West.

[Reece]

Well I haven't read the whole thread but I'm going to have my say:

"It would make Muslims more proud of being British," he said. "It would give Muslims the sense that the British respect our faith."

Suggesting that the British government should change it's laws to suit the Muslims is a load of crap, & for a Christian to make this statement is ludacris! The Pope should give the Archbishop a swift kick in the backside!

[elite_hunter_sh3]

there would be no islamic problem if we never allowed them to come to europe in the first place.. kick em all out before they turn it into a european Iran..

"get rid of the problem ,you go straight to the source"

[JSLTIGER]

Disregard. Deleted by poster.

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by elite_hunter_sh3

there would be no islamic problem if we never allowed them to come to europe in the first place.. kick em all out before they turn it into a european Iran..

"get rid of the problem ,you go straight to the source"

Piss off. Iran has it's problems, but that's in the government. You'll find that the majority of the citizens don't favor the tactics the government uses, nor are they for the structure by which they're run (Islamic Republic sort of deal; most were happier when the Shah, rest his soul, was in place). If there was ever a revolt/second revolution executed by the people against their government for opposition of the current set up by which they're managed, then I think you'd find the country would be a very different place...

That makes a ton of sense. Kick them all out at once. Yeah, then you'll just piss them off EVEN MORE than you would if you just let them have one or two things that they demand. You go swinging a bat at their religious beliefs and their heritage in general, and you invite a huge invasion of angry Muslims, some of which will go Jihad on your continent and then you'll have terrorist attacks and, as Ferris Bueller's economics teacher, as played by Ben Stein, once said: "Death, destruction, total annihilation."

It's a very delicate situation. One wrong move, and it could all blow up in Europe's face in a couple of years. It would be wise to tread lightly and play it cool and not cause outrage in the Muslim/Islamic communities. Otherwise, you face a huge catastrophe.

And not all Muslims/Islamics are bad. My father wasn't a bad person. He was a very kind, intelligent, and practical person who never had a day of hatred enter his life (except when the Shah was removed, then he was furious). The same can be said about my mother and my brothers (except for Muhammed; he can really go wild when he loses his temper). Although I was technically written down as a Shi'ite Muslim, I prefer to think of myself as an Atheist.

[Skybird]

Just curious, Stealth Hunter, no attack intended, you said you prefer to see yourself as an atheist. Technically, you are Muslim since your father was Muslim, and rejecting your faith by rules of Islam means death penalty for your "apostasy". What made you turn your back on it? It seems by your posting above you do not belong to those Muslims in the West that have abandoned major principles of islam and indeed prefer western ethics and rights and freedoms to it, nevertheless insist on being seen as truly Muslim, a constellation that is a constant source of self-contradiction!?

[Stealth Hunter]

The reason why I've turned my back on the Muslim religion and all other religions is because they all cause more problems than they solve. Jews can't get along with Muslims, Muslims can't get along with Christians and Catholics, the ring goes round and round. Also, there's so much suffering that I've seen in my life that I have difficulty believing that God is watching out for us, as all major religions claim.

So to answer your question, I don't want to deny my heritage. You can't change who you are, you can only choose to admit and accept it or not. I technically was born a Muslim, and that sticks with you for the rest of your life. I was born one, and I choose to admit it, but not to follow it. I choose to make my own decisions because I have a right to that freedom. A man I admire very much once said, "You do not know what it is to have freedom until you have that privilege and all others removed from you."

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

The reason why I've turned my back on the Muslim religion and all other religions is because they all cause more problems than they solve. Jews can't get along with Muslims, Muslims can't get along with Christians and Catholics, the ring goes round and round. Also, there's so much suffering that I've seen in my life that I have difficulty believing that God is watching out for us, as all major religions claim.

So to answer your question, I don't want to deny my heritage. You can't change who you are, you can only choose to admit and accept it or not. I technically was born a Muslim, and that sticks with you for the rest of your life. I was born one, and I choose to admit it, but not to follow it. I choose to make my own decisions because I have a right to that freedom. A man I admire very much once said, "You do not know what it is to have freedom until you have that privilege and all others removed from you."

Very well. While from an islamic point of view you are a "possession" of Islam for all your lifetime, I - like you - believe that man has the freedom of choice and thus cannot be the possessed by somebody else just by birth - that would be slavery. In my view, you are Persian by your cultural background. But from what you say I would not say you are Muslim, even if at certain sopcial situation I could imagine that you maybe pro forma may follow some of their rules, to make it easier for other people to deal with you. The form is not the important thing, but the essence. I have spend some months in your country (assuming you are currently sitting in Iran), and in no other muslim country I saw so diverse a spectrum: the religious fanatics on the one side, a very educated, reasonable and influenced by the West (from colonial times) burgeoisie on the other side. Although I once was in the middle of one of these hysteric mass demonstrations in Teheran in, i think, 1996, all in all I had more good memories of people's hospitality and non-hostility towards my identity in iran, than in any other Muslim country I was. The worst it was in Turkey, nowhere else we were so often confronted with arrogance and disadin, than there, and the habits of hospitality were often only followed in icy atmosphere (talking of the rural Turks, and places offside the big metropoles, it was different - and better - with the kurds, and in the greater cities). My determined position on nulcear weapons and iran is as well-known here as is my unforgiving rejection of Islamic ideology, but I consider people like the current hardliners to be a great trategdy for your country, and would not feel like shouting horray if there ever would be a war with Iran, while eventually maybe supporting the cause. I really hope that there will be no nuclear weapons in Iran, and I am fully aware that paradoxically Iran even needs nuclear energy to make it's poil trades more profitable, but I am pessimistic. Best thing would be if Iranians prevent the religious camp fro any power all by themselves, but obviously that needs social and communal preconditions fulfilled that currently and in the forseeable future will not bet met.

Peoplo like you should make themselves heared more often, if I may say that so undiplomatically, it would help to fight against the demonisation of your culture that leads so long time back before muhammad appeared on the scene, and demonisation never is good and hinders one's sight. I absolutely have a determined stand on certain questions regarding Islam, and islam in the West and nukes and Iran, yes - but I also know that that country and it's people has another face, too. It's just that this is not to be seen often. Beside Lybia, it seems to be the most educated nation in the Muslim world. Only sometimes I got engaged in philosophical or religious talks with Iranians there, and one time even with a cleric from southen Teheran. Back at that time i used to refer to myself as buiddhist, if not only for reasons of simplicity and not needing to make long explanations. Iranians for the most tended to simply accept that, and curiosuly asking querstions, they really wanted to know. In all other countries I was, it was a reason to errect walls against me immediately. Not believing in a god = no offspring of Abraham = worthless foreigner: that often was the formula I heared ticking in the background of their minds. Not just to believe in something translated into my personal arroganace - a phenomenon i know from dealing with Christian fundamentalists - if only they would know how much they have in common with the true Islam they claim to fight against - they would blush immediately!

[Stealth Hunter]

Thankfully, I'm NOT in Iran at the moment given the iffy situation... although I must confess I have been tempted to return to Tehran and I have said so many times. I've been living in Texas a little over a decade now. I like it here. Not the best state in the US, but I like it nonetheless. Colorado is where I want to live. The Rocky Mountains are titanic compared to the Alborz (Pike's Peak was quite a fun undertaking), and the forests there are nothing short of amazing.

I must say that all too often are the governmental officials of a nation are accepted as the general stereotype for the people which they represent, which is just wrong all the way around so far as I'm concerned (this is in regards to your statement about talking with the Iranian citizens that you met about your Buddhist beliefs). A prime example is Ahmadinejad's proposal that the Holocaust never happened. People think this also is the same with the people that live under his rule, when in fact, it's quite the opposite. To add to that, one of the highest rated shows in their country is about an Iranian man who is studying in Europe during Hitler's reign who goes from an innocent onlooker to a sympathizer for the Jews (and he helps them escape the Germans towards the end; rather good; several European countries pitched in to help with the production of it).

I sometimes ponder, and I've done this many a night, what the world would be like if we all actually took the time to sit down and got to know one another. I sometimes think we'd live in a better international society, but you'll always have a bad apple in the basket. I feel that many of the world's problems come from people misunderstanding one another, but I don't know. I could just as likely be wrong. Maybe someday we'll see a world like that, perhaps not in our lifetimes, but maybe it will exist someday.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Colorado is where I want to live.

If only waste_gate was still around

[Stealth Hunter]

Oh my god. They KEELHAULED him?! WTF? Why?!

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by elite_hunter_sh3

there would be no islamic problem if we never allowed them to come to europe in the first place.. kick em all out before they turn it into a european Iran..

"get rid of the problem ,you go straight to the source"

And a guy who yesterday sported a signature urging us to Google 'Palestinian Genocide' now advocates a 'trail of tears' approach for European Muslims. Silly.