Clinton: "We Just Have to Slow Down Our Economy" to Fight Global Warming

[NEON DEON]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Are you saying that your vid is edited? I'd call that Democratic slant! Seems you got your words mixed up now didn't you? :p

-S

You are right subman a real president said that. I just pointed to the Video.

You and Michael Moore should get together and create some slantumentaries, that is if you dont wind up killing each other first.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by mrbeast

Subman I don't know what planet your living on ( planet rightwing fantasist maybe :hmm: ) but I think its you that should open your eyes and rub some of the sand out of them.

Moscow central and COMINTERN are long long gone. You posted a paranoid article about suposed communist intentions to conquer the US written in 1963! So you are taking your information from over 40 years ago. Do you not think its just a little out of date?

Certainly there are still communist parties around theres some over here in the UK too but how many members do you think they have? I'll tell you very few they are tiny fringe groups, Subman. Infact I'd put money on there being more ultra right wing party members in the US than far left.

I'd say that things everywhere were going the other way actually more towards capitalism than communism.

Maybe you should check what planet 'you' are living on? Let's analyze it. We can name a few countries that didn't get your memo.

1. Lets see, North Korea comes to mind, as does Laos, Vietnam, and even Cuba.
2. You can even choke one up for a major world power who didn't get your memo - China!
3. Countries like Venezuela didn't get it either since they just recently converted.
4. You have Russia trying to put back together the old Soviet Union, and heading that direction every day.
5. Even the UK is heading far away from capitalism, and is very much a Socialist country now and is on the Communist back porch from a political perspective.

We should bring in Steed here. He tells you every day how far down this road you are going. From stupid government control to political correctness gone haywire.

As far as how well they are succeeding in turning this whole world Socialist/Communist, count how many of those points they have won from 1963? I'd say the vast majority of them and they are still going strong. They even pretty much own our democrats in government, so they even have suceeded there. I bet it is going slower than they would like or thought, but it is moving that direction.

Now the most disturbing part - YOU DON'T EVEN REALIZE IT IS HAPPENING!!!! Go read that list of 45 points. You might be a little shocked! It mirrors what is on the Communists Parties USA website to a tee!!! Your freedoms are being done away with daily as well, one chip at a time.

Back to the US of A. Half our country is starting to see the light on this. This is why the massively deep divides you are seeing in the American people in the last couple elections. Half are for government ruling our lives, and half want to be left alone to raise a family and live life.

Time has no bearing on the issue. 40 years ago, 4,000 years ago, or yesterday. Doesn't matter. The ideas are still the same. It deeply troubles me that people are losing sight of what is happening, and this is being accomplished through moral decline.

Sad. So I guess you can truely say that I don't have my head in the sand, since I can see past, present, and future clearly.

-S

[silentrunner]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Penelope...............the USSR was parking nukes 80 miles off the US coast in Cuba.....ummmm the paranoia was real.


Not to mention the three Soviet subs headed to the east coast with nuke torps aboard. All were found and made to surface.

Seriously Penelope do you know how many communist spies were caught during the Cold War, and even now like:
Alger Hiss
Aldrich Ames
Julius Rosenburg
Robert Hanssen
and the list goes much further on.

[Skybird]

Let's keep it in relation.

The USSR did it's part to sometimes counter American first efforts, sometimes moving ahead and triggering America to counter Soviet first efforts (remember, the cold war was carried out by TWO opponents, and regarding nuclear technology many firsts in weapons were developed and fielded by america first, not russia, which often more or less reacted to SSBNs, ICBMs, MIRVs, Kennedy's monumental nuclear arms program).

Penelope probably did not refer to such an obvious crisis like Cuba, but to the fact that many Americans almost go hysteric when Communism is mentioned. Heck, america already goes crazy when some body is mentioning "social" (not to mention "socialism", which is even something different). This antipathic hype concerning the class enemy of capitalism, communism that is, gave us not only worries about nukes on Cuba - but McCarthy's witch hunt as well. And today's massive undermining of basic rights in the name of security and countering terror, shares quite some similiarities to MyCarthy's paranoia in the meaning of going beyond what is reasonable and helptful, and demanding total control for the purpose of itself - not just for countering communist traitors, or terrorists.

And this forum itself has seen a lot of fury about terms like communism and socialism as well, so... leave it in perspective, guys.

and silentrunner, AVGwarhawk, , do you really thinkm the US navy did not conduct subamrine exercises offshore of Russia, and carried out other acts regarding Russia that you would not be shy to list here if it would have been the russian doing it with regard to America? the cold war was a game of mutual cold agressions. It was not just russia violating america's security interests, and it was not that America never responded on equal terms. In fact, many first steps were beeing taken by america, not Russia. Stop being blind on one eye. Regarding the NATO expansion right up to russian borders of today, opposite to the deals and promises that were given to them before and that the Russian trusted into (a betrayal by NATO for which they see themselves paying a high price now, and thus they are so angry at NATO), and regarding the planned missile sites in Poland and the Czech Republik, america is continuing the cold war game right until today - and then is lamenting over the logical and angry reactions and chnages in Russian policies. When you feel tempted to ventilate about how Putin could dare to do like he does, and to confront the West and give no more cheap presents, do not forget that this is in direct reaction to NATO's behavior of the past 15 years, and the broken promises in these years. Putin once was totally commited to the idea to bring Russia closer to europe, he is a great admirer of Alexander the Great and wanted to continue where alexander had to stop. It's just that the West showed him that such good will would be deliberately exploited for selfish Western interests. what is it wonder then if now he uses the same kind of behavior agaimst the West, not wanting to see his country getting exploited once again?

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

.
1. Lets see, North Korea comes to mind, as does Laos, Vietnam, and even Cuba.

North Korea is not exporting communism. Its an isolated basket case of a country that can't even feed its own population. It rattles its sabre every now and then, gives Japan a poke, thats about it. The US gives it some food aid and oil; it shuts up. Vietnam, Laos are hardly going to start the domino effect. Infact they're trying to get a piece of that good old capitalist pie.

Cuba is a small and weak country that threatens no one. It no longer has the backing of the USSR and once Castro dies I doubt it will stay communist for long.

2. You can even choke one up for a major world power who didn't get your memo - China!

Is this the China that is busily building a capitalist economy?

3. Countries like Venezuela didn't get it either since they just recently converted.

Chavez is pretty left-wing and he likes to goad the US but I wouln't say he is a communist. Quite a few South American countries have elected left leaning governments but I wouldn't say they were communist either.

4. You have Russia trying to put back together the old Soviet Union, and heading that direction every day.

No it isn't.

5. Even the UK is heading far away from capitalism, and is very much a Socialist country now and is on the Communist back porch from a political perspective.

Nope not much evidence for that. For example when a Labour party government (Labour is the left leaning party in the UK, or it was, very centrist now) wants to involve private companies as providers of public services etc (a scheme called PFI or Private Finance Initiative) it don't exactly shout marxist at me.

We should bring in Steed here. He tells you every day how far down this road you are going. From stupid government control to political correctness gone haywire.

The more the merrier. But don't see what 'political correctness' or government control have specifically to do with communism. BTW think this communist axis that is slowly taking over the world has rather limited aims if for example banning the story of the three little pigs is a central plank of its strategy. As for government control think George Bush's government is doing a good job of eroding your rights in the US and increasing control. Is he a communist?

As far as how well they are succeeding in turning this whole world Socialist/Communist, count how many of those points they have won from 1963? I'd say the vast majority of them and they are still going strong. They even pretty much own our democrats in government, so they even have suceeded there. I bet it is going slower than they would like or thought, but it is moving that direction.

Think its best we leave that list of baloney back in 1963.

Now the most disturbing part - YOU DON'T EVEN REALIZE IT IS HAPPENING!!!! Go read that list of 45 points. You might be a little shocked! It mirrors what is on the Communists Parties USA website to a tee!!! Your freedoms are being done away with daily as well, one chip at a time.

Back to the US of A. Half our country is starting to see the light on this. This is why the massively deep divides you are seeing in the American people in the last couple elections. Half are for government ruling our lives, and half want to be left alone to raise a family and live life.

The problem Subman is that you have a very basic and crude understanding of what is and what is not communist. You appear to live in a Black/White world where if something is not rugged individalist or fits in with your wold view then it must be communist. You accuse things or people of being communist as if you were a 17th century purtitan denouncing a witch! Its laughable and frightening at the same time how simplistic and old fashioned your views are.

and this is being accomplished through moral decline.

Maybe you are a 17th century puritan? :hmm:

[Penelope_Grey]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Penelope...............the USSR was parking nukes 80 miles off the US coast in Cuba.....ummmm the paranoia was real.

Well...The US parked medium range ICBM's in Turkey first. all the Russians did was tit for tat.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Penelope probably did not refer to such an obvious crisis like Cuba, but to the fact that many Americans almost go hysteric when Communism is mentioned. Heck, america already goes crazy when some body is mentioning "social" (not to mention "socialism", which is even something different).

correct Skybird.

That was presisely what amused me. As for cuba, from what I've read America was just as responsible for that as Russia was.

Originally Posted by subman1

5. Even the UK is heading far away from capitalism, and is very much a Socialist country now and is on the Communist back porch from a political perspective.

No no no. The UK is far from a socialist country. Ask any Pensioner you like they will soon tell you how un-socialist the place is.

[AVGWarhawk]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

Well...The US parked medium range ICBM's in Turkey first. all the Russians did was tit for tat.

Yes, but the point being there was every reason to be paranoid. It was real and Americans had every cause to be afraid and paranoid. Yes, we parked a few pointed at Russia and tit for tat, but the threat and paranoia in the USSR at the time was real as well. It was as close as America/USSR got to actually pressing the big red button.

[Penelope_Grey]

I still don't get why America felt the need to set up weapons, blatantly, right on Russia's borders... if that is not a direct display of intention I don't know what is.

Having said that, history will remember the cuban missile crisis 2 ways.

1) as America proving the stronger of the two getting the USSR to back down first. or....

2) as the USSR proving more sensible than American leadership and backing down first to prevent a nuclear catastrophe.

Either way, imagine if Krushchev refused to back down? Would Kennedy really have pressed the button and destroyed the world? Hmm... maybe its a good job Kennedy was assasinated in the long run.

Communism is something to be afraid of I can grant that, but in reality, communism will never work, the reason being, simple human nature. We are selfish creatures, why should I give over what is mine? Its a nice thought to think that the road sweeper and the brain surgeon are equal and of equal worth to society, but as long as people are always looking out for number 1... you get nowhere, that is why communism fails.

[fatty]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

Either way, imagine if Krushchev refused to back down? Would Kennedy really have pressed the button and destroyed the world? Hmm... maybe its a good job Kennedy was assasinated in the long run.

To help steer this topic even further off course, you should know that the quarantine was just one step in a progressive chain of options proposed by EXCOMM. IIRC surgical air strikes and amphibious attacks were to follow if the blockades and Stevenson's pressure at the U.N. did not yield positive results. Nuclear war was not an option tabled by EXCOMM.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

No no no. The UK is far from a socialist country. Ask any Pensioner you like they will soon tell you how un-socialist the place is.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: So you are saying the pensioners got screwed? Funny! Tell that to Steed. It will set him off again!

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by mrbeast

North Korea is not exporting communism. Its an isolated basket case of a country that can't even feed its own population. It rattles its sabre every now and then, gives Japan a poke, thats about it. The US gives it some food aid and oil; it shuts up. Vietnam, Laos are hardly going to start the domino effect. Infact they're trying to get a piece of that good old capitalist pie.

Cuba is a small and weak country that threatens no one. It no longer has the backing of the USSR and once Castro dies I doubt it will stay communist for long.

Is this the China that is busily building a capitalist economy?

Make no mistake. All of these countries are very much Communist. They are simply using part of the way that the US does business to compete against the US economically. However, if China tells you that you are going to be a Basketball player, you by god are going to be a basketball player and you will not fail. Talk to some of the executives that screwed up with our toys recently - they were executed - those that didn't commit suicide that is.

All is better now! Toys are safe! We execute CEO! All is better now! Toys are safe!

Funny!

Chavez is pretty left-wing and he likes to goad the US but I wouln't say he is a communist. Quite a few South American countries have elected left leaning governments but I wouldn't say they were communist either.

Even his opposition says and fears that he will completely suceed. They may not be 100% yet, but at least 80% to 90% already there. Go look at their last elections. SHould show you a thing or two and point out how. Concentrate on his opposition. They spell it out clearly.

No it isn't.

Oh yes he is! But we may have more to worry about with the EU being the new Soviet Union than anything - http://www.free-europe.org/blog/?itemid=17 - that is the opinion of some of your fellow EU brothers!

The more the merrier. But don't see what 'political correctness' or government control have specifically to do with communism. BTW think this communist axis that is slowly taking over the world has rather limited aims if for example banning the story of the three little pigs is a central plank of its strategy. As for government control think George Bush's government is doing a good job of eroding your rights in the US and increasing control. Is he a communist?

Well let me educate you then - http://www.academia.org/lectures/lind1.html

Interesting lecture huh? Now you are aware of its orgins when you were once not aware.

Think its best we leave that list of baloney back in 1963.

What part of the ideas are the same exactly that you don't understand? Doesn't matter what year it is.

Wise men know to look to the past to get an idea of the future. Those that fail in this end up sailing without a rudder.

The problem Subman is that you have a very basic and crude understanding of what is and what is not communist. You appear to live in a Black/White world where if something is not rugged individalist or fits in with your wold view then it must be communist. You accuse things or people of being communist as if you were a 17th century purtitan denouncing a witch! Its laughable and frightening at the same time how simplistic and old fashioned your views are.

I think I have proven whos intellect is crude here, over and over it is yours. This is simply because I think that you are unaware or ignorant of the facts. Ones you have the facts, then you will be able to make a real opinion. Wake up and look around you for once. It is not pretty what is happening. I don't want to sit here and argue your views - read the net. Read up what is a Marxists policy and ideas and you might be a little shocked.

From what I read in your posts though is that you 'accept' what is happening to you. I hope that is not the case. I want to look out for my fellow subsimmer!

Maybe you are a 17th century puritan? :hmm:

Now you are being laughable with a direct attack. Please refrain. Thx!

-S

[AVGWarhawk]

Penelope:

Either way, imagine if Krushchev refused to back down? Would Kennedy really have pressed the button and destroyed the world? Hmm... maybe its a good job Kennedy was assasinated in the long run.

Would Krushchev pushed the button? Would Kennedy push the button? No, it was simply a stare down. Like two bullies attempting to be top dog. As far as the assasination comment....you would probably be drawn and quarted in the US to state it was a good job in the long run. Kennedy was a war hero. Inspired a nation to vote in the youngest president ever. We had one picture of a president in our home when I was a kid..it was JFK. One thing Kennedy did not want was to push a button.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: So you are saying the pensioners got screwed? Funny! Tell that to Steed. It will set him off again!

-S

The good lady Penelope_Grey is correct, are stinking government looks at pensioners as lay abouts burdening the State and if they could get there way they would kill them all, which they are doing now. Age concern has stated 1 in 10 pensioners must decide to heat there home and go without food or eat and go without heating, I am bloody sick of those pigs at Westminster giving themselves massive pay rises for what? So they can shat over the rest of us.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

Having said that, history will remember the cuban missile crisis 2 ways.

Well, history must remember only this: Kissinger (think it was him) being quoted with "The thing was totally beyond control - we simply were very lucky." (re-translated from the German)

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Well, history must remember only this: Kissinger (think it was him) being quoted with "The thing was totally beyond control - we simply were very lucky." (re-translated from the German)

That is true. Watched a History channel thing on it and Kruskinoff, or however you spell his name, had his finger on the button twice.

-S