The Last American Ocean Liners - Page 2

swifty · 01-31-08, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Me personally fail to see the fun in spending two weeks on a flying city with shops and shops and shops and more shops and promenades offering more shops and reaching from bow to stern.

I used to feel the same way until my GF talked me into going on one. And as far as vacations go it's got to be one of the most relaxful ones I have ever been on. The only real worry I ever had was to make sure I didnt lose track of time while in port and miss the boat, every thing else was taken care of. Now for me I have it made I live no more than 2 hours from the 3 largest cruse ports in the US (Miami, Ft. Lauderdale and Cape Canaveral) so I don't have to worry about flights. I see it as a great way to unwind and recharged as a four day weekend.

Quote:

I worked on a cruise ship for a while, and I can assure you the average passenger is 30 years older and 100 pounds heavier.

I will agree the average is 30 but there is almost always a group of 20 something co-eds. Just about all my lady friend go on a cruse each year.
Some of my friends:

Torplexed · 01-31-08, 12:49 AM

Oh my.

Cruise ship babes.

Where's ol' Leisure Suit Larry when you need him?

geetrue · 01-31-08, 02:12 AM

Looks like all of those girls had the same plastic surgeon to me ...

Just kidding ... I love old ships.

Good luck StarFox ... Have you thought about fixing the United States up with a perment mooring place ... then turning her into a time-share stateroom venture.

I have ... but a little low on dough right now, like three bucks.

StarFox · 01-31-08, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etienne

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapitan

SS United states been laid up for a very long time i cant ever see her going back to sea, its full of rust and wont pass SOLAS 2010 for definate.

SOLAS 2010 will likely only apply to ships whose keels was laid after a certain date, unless it's a large deviation from previous convention. The smaller stuff (IE, the stuff that donT require modifying the ship itself) would apply, but otherwise she'd still be classed under whatever rules and convention were in effect at the time her keel was laid.

Unless, of course, the recomissionning effort involves such major modification to the ship that it's considered a rebuilding.

In any case, it probably wouldn't be financially viable to put her back into service. Cripe, the boat is steam powered! With today's fuel cost, how can that ever be profitable? They have to compete with everybody else out there.

Nobody ever says anything when a cargo boat gets scrapped.

Thats because most cargo boats, no one ever thinks of them anyway. they are nothing more then an invisible means of trade. But believe me, I have seen a few cargo ships got to the breakers that I was upset about

Ocean Liners are different. espically these two. The United States is the greatest maritime acheivment ever in United States history. she had many firsts, first fire proof ship, first ship with full A/C (a huge luxery back in 1952) First ship with two complete engine rooms, largest ship ever built in america (both then and now)

Independence has less cool facts about her, but the simple fact that she was made in america I blieve is enough to save her. even so, there are so few ocean liners left anywhere in the world, so saving a few of the best, would benafit future generations so they can learn about the past, much like preserving Uboats in the post WWII years

JSLTIGER · 01-31-08, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torplexed

Oh my.

Cruise ship babes.

Where's ol' Leisure Suit Larry when you need him?

The original taught me how to type when I was a little kid...

Etienne · 01-31-08, 12:20 PM

Let's play Guess the Cruise Line!

Quote:

Originally Posted by swifty

Carnival Cruise Line, Original Flava.

Quote:

Originally Posted by swifty

Royal Caribbean. The top picture is in Labadee or that other private place they have in the W. Caribs.

Did I get any right? :-D

(You know you've been working too much when you try to identify the ships in the pictures before you even notice the girls.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarFox

...first fire proof ship...

Funny that they could build unsinkable ships in 1912, but waited forty years to take care of the flammabillity problem. :-D

StarFox · 01-31-08, 03:44 PM

I know im gonna get flamed for this post, but I do not care....i guess no one here cares about history

And look up William Francis Gibbs, he indeed made a true fireproof ship, it was not just a catch line, it was a true fact

I have just head from Jon Haeber in California. He recently took some wonderful pictures
of the Interior of the great SS Independence. the ship looks almost in pristine shape,
almost new. sure the exterior is beat up, but its the interior that matters

I along with the rest of the "Save a Classic Liner" campaign have hoped that this historic
ship, built in 1951, she sailed until 2001. 50 Years in Service, quite a record, even the
SS United States cannot show such a record.

However, Jon has told me, the word on the Street is that the delightful Independence (now
renamed Oceanic) is leaving next thursday for "asia"

We all know that could mean two things, either a yard to refit the ship for service (which
is unlikely as no one even knows who owns the ship now) or she is going to a breaking yard

the Independence represents one of two remaing AMERICAN ocean liners from a bygone time.
the other of course being the SS United States. the Sistership to the Independence, the
Constitution, sank on her way to india in 1995.

I am trying to put together a huge media Blitz in a last bid attempt to save this great
and historic ship. Anyone willing, anyone who calls themselves a ship lover, be it
warships of commerical ships, you should help with this effort. Sure she has no guns,
never killed anyone, but she is the 2nd to last american ocean liner left on earth. The
rest as far as I know, are gone for good. Dont let this happen! Help, Email, call every
international news station on earth. Please, dont let another great ship meet the torch.

Help preserve history, Save a Classic Liner!!!

-Will Gant
Member of the "Save a Classic Liner" Campaign

joea · 01-31-08, 05:18 PM

Good luck friend, I hope you suceed.

StarFox · 01-31-08, 05:55 PM

Thanks, It never hurts to try

And to be honest, At least the United States is still around, she is the one that over all needs the huge attention. She requires far more work then the Indy does, which is why it was logical to try and save the Independence first

she could be a hotel with less the a months work, mostly painting and replacing the wood decks that have been exposed to the weather.

and at least I can feel some pride in trying to save some history....even if its from my computer desk

geetrue · 01-31-08, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarFox

Thanks, It never hurts to try

And to be honest, At least the United States is still around, she is the one that over all needs the huge attention. She requires far more work then the Indy does, which is why it was logical to try and save the Independence first

she could be a hotel with less the a months work, mostly painting and replacing the wood decks that have been exposed to the weather.

and at least I can feel some pride in trying to save some history....even if its from my computer desk

"If God be for you ... who can be against you" Romans 8:31

SteminDemon13 · 01-31-08, 06:45 PM

Hi Star Fox,

Let me commend you on a great post. I have read about the SS United States. What is it you and your organization that you associate with plan to do? Have you or anyone of your organization inspected the ship?
Keeping her steam powered would not be a problem. She has a design similar to the Iowa Class propulsion plant (that's why regulars were prohibited from visiting the plant) All of these liners/ships guzzle fuel. Gas turbines are the worst for fuel consumption and their efficiency drops even further in warm weather.
A well maintained steam plant will give you happy steamind for many many years. The Iowa class battleships had an unmatched record of reliability by the way.

Star fox, it would be nice to know how the propulsion plants were laid up? Was there cosmoline put in all of the Reduction Gears? How were the boilers laid up prior to her sitting all these years. Being there is no power to the ship I am sure that the boilers were not on a heated air lay up. Nitrogen Blanket? Maybe, but someone would have to make sure the pressure was maintained? Hot Deaerated backfill is only good for 2 weeks, so it would have been stupid to use that, could be a hydrazine layup, but an adequate level in the head tank has to be maintained, combined with desicant bags on the fire sides of the boiler and in the uptakes? Or was a completely dry lay up done, with desicant bags all over the place? Desicant bags do need to be changed though, not sure if any of this was maintained So many variables.

Star fox, if your organization would like me to help with an inspection of the propulsion plant let me know. I would be glad to help out. We would need to get a portable generator though so we can light up the fire and engine rooms. Other concerns would be Gas Free epuipment and a qualified person to boot, because there is no way anyone should be going in a void or enclosure without a gas free cirtificate. Safety is key and I would not want anyone, including myself to be hurt, or dead.
A plan of action and requirements would have to be written up for everyones well being. Good luck Star Fox, and thanks for supporting a great lady like the SS United States.

And thanks to the others for those cruise ship girl pictures.

StarFox · 01-31-08, 10:54 PM

Actually as much as we would love to return her to active service sailing the world, we currently believe that the best outlet for the ship is as a Static hotel, museum, and convention Center in New York

NCL is the only group that has inspected her in recent years, they conculded that it was feasable to return her to active service. It has also been reported that the SS United States Conservancy I believe was shown underwater video of the Hull of the ship, according to them, it is in good shape, with little marine growth

As far as her layup concerns, she was abruptly laid up in 1969, half way through a major overhaul, so I cannot even begin to guess what was done and what was not. I do not know of any inspections of her turbines

no matter what however, to return the Big U to operation is estimated to cost more then $500 Million USD. which is more then the cost of a new cruise ship in most cases.

even the cost to restore her as a hotel would be HUGE, far more then the Independence. which is why I believe that the Indy is a good stepping stone...however it seems time is now against us.

Hopefully, we can get enough press about the ship, and do enough to 1, prevent her beaching, 2, get people with the money to buy and operate the Independence, or the United States as a hotel, convention center and maritime museum

swifty · 02-01-08, 12:56 AM

Good Luck. Unfortunately judging but their current state they will never sail again. I just can't see a company being able to make a profit when a new ship cost the same and trying to get people to sail on an old dated ship when there is the Cunard Line offering the same experience with more amenities and luxuries.

I also see little chance that of them being successful as hotel and conference center. Their design just leave them too cramped and closed in.

Where you might find success is in partnering with one of the US naval museums and turning it into a hotel, restaurant and museum. Being a museum it could fall under a not for profit saving lots of money.

Both need a lot of work but I have to say the United States looks more regal and what an ocean liner should look like she also appears to have more history with the Blue Riband award.

Photos of the two in their current State
S.S. United States
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=...4612&encType=1

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lphia_2005.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...d_StatesMP.Jpg

SS Independence
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=...2749&encType=1

Thermographer · 02-01-08, 03:46 AM

I'd love to cross the Atlantic again in anything that wouldn't require breathing recycled air or require me to stand watch!
Cruse ship, sailing ship.. either! I bet the company would be better as well. ( see above bikini pics )

geetrue · 02-01-08, 09:43 AM

I agree with Swifty ... the SS United States is the better looking one as far a real sleek look.

As a last ditch effort, contact the US Navy asking them if they would consider a novel idea of having the SS United States as a recruiting office.

Berth it somewhere in Florida for the tourist trade to impress those young lad's and lassie's to join up someday.

Plus after 39 years in the water, those zinc's are gone ... you got to have a thin sheet of metal somewhere ...
by the way what does a $100 a day come to for 39 years? That's the minimum charge for tying up a ship that big or else some else has their heart and soul in this grand old ship.

Good luck ...

01-31-08, 02:12 AM	#18
geetrue Cold War Boomer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Walla Walla Posts: 2,837 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Looks like all of those girls had the same plastic surgeon to me ... Just kidding ... I love old ships. Good luck StarFox ... Have you thought about fixing the United States up with a perment mooring place ... then turning her into a time-share stateroom venture. I have ... but a little low on dough right now, like three bucks. __________________

01-31-08, 03:44 PM	#22
StarFox Engineer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Denver, Colorado, USA Posts: 216 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	I know im gonna get flamed for this post, but I do not care....i guess no one here cares about history And look up William Francis Gibbs, he indeed made a true fireproof ship, it was not just a catch line, it was a true fact I have just head from Jon Haeber in California. He recently took some wonderful pictures of the Interior of the great SS Independence. the ship looks almost in pristine shape, almost new. sure the exterior is beat up, but its the interior that matters I along with the rest of the "Save a Classic Liner" campaign have hoped that this historic ship, built in 1951, she sailed until 2001. 50 Years in Service, quite a record, even the SS United States cannot show such a record. However, Jon has told me, the word on the Street is that the delightful Independence (now renamed Oceanic) is leaving next thursday for "asia" We all know that could mean two things, either a yard to refit the ship for service (which is unlikely as no one even knows who owns the ship now) or she is going to a breaking yard the Independence represents one of two remaing AMERICAN ocean liners from a bygone time. the other of course being the SS United States. the Sistership to the Independence, the Constitution, sank on her way to india in 1995. I am trying to put together a huge media Blitz in a last bid attempt to save this great and historic ship. Anyone willing, anyone who calls themselves a ship lover, be it warships of commerical ships, you should help with this effort. Sure she has no guns, never killed anyone, but she is the 2nd to last american ocean liner left on earth. The rest as far as I know, are gone for good. Dont let this happen! Help, Email, call every international news station on earth. Please, dont let another great ship meet the torch. Help preserve history, Save a Classic Liner!!! -Will Gant Member of the "Save a Classic Liner" Campaign __________________ Devoted fan of the SS United States, America's Flagship! I dream of her second life....

01-31-08, 05:55 PM	#24
StarFox Engineer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Denver, Colorado, USA Posts: 216 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	Thanks, It never hurts to try And to be honest, At least the United States is still around, she is the one that over all needs the huge attention. She requires far more work then the Indy does, which is why it was logical to try and save the Independence first she could be a hotel with less the a months work, mostly painting and replacing the wood decks that have been exposed to the weather. and at least I can feel some pride in trying to save some history....even if its from my computer desk __________________ Devoted fan of the SS United States, America's Flagship! I dream of her second life....

01-31-08, 06:45 PM	#26
SteminDemon13 Sparky Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 158 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Hi Star Fox, Let me commend you on a great post. I have read about the SS United States. What is it you and your organization that you associate with plan to do? Have you or anyone of your organization inspected the ship? Keeping her steam powered would not be a problem. She has a design similar to the Iowa Class propulsion plant (that's why regulars were prohibited from visiting the plant) All of these liners/ships guzzle fuel. Gas turbines are the worst for fuel consumption and their efficiency drops even further in warm weather. A well maintained steam plant will give you happy steamind for many many years. The Iowa class battleships had an unmatched record of reliability by the way. Star fox, it would be nice to know how the propulsion plants were laid up? Was there cosmoline put in all of the Reduction Gears? How were the boilers laid up prior to her sitting all these years. Being there is no power to the ship I am sure that the boilers were not on a heated air lay up. Nitrogen Blanket? Maybe, but someone would have to make sure the pressure was maintained? Hot Deaerated backfill is only good for 2 weeks, so it would have been stupid to use that, could be a hydrazine layup, but an adequate level in the head tank has to be maintained, combined with desicant bags on the fire sides of the boiler and in the uptakes? Or was a completely dry lay up done, with desicant bags all over the place? Desicant bags do need to be changed though, not sure if any of this was maintained So many variables. Star fox, if your organization would like me to help with an inspection of the propulsion plant let me know. I would be glad to help out. We would need to get a portable generator though so we can light up the fire and engine rooms. Other concerns would be Gas Free epuipment and a qualified person to boot, because there is no way anyone should be going in a void or enclosure without a gas free cirtificate. Safety is key and I would not want anyone, including myself to be hurt, or dead. A plan of action and requirements would have to be written up for everyones well being. Good luck Star Fox, and thanks for supporting a great lady like the SS United States. And thanks to the others for those cruise ship girl pictures. __________________ This is a day to celebrate the rebirth of American sea power." "Listen for the footsteps of those who have gone before you. They speak to you of honor and the importance of duty. They remind you of your own traditions." Casper W. Weinberger. Reactivate Our Battleships!

01-31-08, 10:54 PM	#27
StarFox Engineer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Denver, Colorado, USA Posts: 216 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	Actually as much as we would love to return her to active service sailing the world, we currently believe that the best outlet for the ship is as a Static hotel, museum, and convention Center in New York NCL is the only group that has inspected her in recent years, they conculded that it was feasable to return her to active service. It has also been reported that the SS United States Conservancy I believe was shown underwater video of the Hull of the ship, according to them, it is in good shape, with little marine growth As far as her layup concerns, she was abruptly laid up in 1969, half way through a major overhaul, so I cannot even begin to guess what was done and what was not. I do not know of any inspections of her turbines no matter what however, to return the Big U to operation is estimated to cost more then $500 Million USD. which is more then the cost of a new cruise ship in most cases. even the cost to restore her as a hotel would be HUGE, far more then the Independence. which is why I believe that the Indy is a good stepping stone...however it seems time is now against us. Hopefully, we can get enough press about the ship, and do enough to 1, prevent her beaching, 2, get people with the money to buy and operate the Independence, or the United States as a hotel, convention center and maritime museum __________________ Devoted fan of the SS United States, America's Flagship! I dream of her second life....

01-31-08, 12:49 AM	#17
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Oh my. Cruise ship babes. Where's ol' Leisure Suit Larry when you need him?

01-31-08, 05:18 PM	#23
joea Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: At periscope depth in Lake Geneva Posts: 3,512 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Good luck friend, I hope you suceed.

02-01-08, 12:56 AM	#28
swifty Soundman Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: S. Florida Posts: 141 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Good Luck. Unfortunately judging but their current state they will never sail again. I just can't see a company being able to make a profit when a new ship cost the same and trying to get people to sail on an old dated ship when there is the Cunard Line offering the same experience with more amenities and luxuries. I also see little chance that of them being successful as hotel and conference center. Their design just leave them too cramped and closed in. Where you might find success is in partnering with one of the US naval museums and turning it into a hotel, restaurant and museum. Being a museum it could fall under a not for profit saving lots of money. Both need a lot of work but I have to say the United States looks more regal and what an ocean liner should look like she also appears to have more history with the Blue Riband award. Photos of the two in their current State S.S. United States http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=...4612&encType=1 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lphia_2005.JPG http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...d_StatesMP.Jpg SS Independence http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=...2749&encType=1

02-01-08, 03:46 AM	#29
Thermographer Swabbie Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Houma, Louisiana Posts: 11 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I'd love to cross the Atlantic again in anything that wouldn't require breathing recycled air or require me to stand watch! Cruse ship, sailing ship.. either! I bet the company would be better as well. ( see above bikini pics ) __________________ U.S.S. Kamehameha (SSBN 642) MT2/SS 1987-1992.

02-01-08, 09:43 AM	#30
geetrue Cold War Boomer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Walla Walla Posts: 2,837 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I agree with Swifty ... the SS United States is the better looking one as far a real sleek look. As a last ditch effort, contact the US Navy asking them if they would consider a novel idea of having the SS United States as a recruiting office. Berth it somewhere in Florida for the tourist trade to impress those young lad's and lassie's to join up someday. Plus after 39 years in the water, those zinc's are gone ... you got to have a thin sheet of metal somewhere ... by the way what does a $100 a day come to for 39 years? That's the minimum charge for tying up a ship that big or else some else has their heart and soul in this grand old ship. Good luck ... __________________