Shallow water ops?

MarkShot · 01-27-08, 09:51 PM

Well, maybe I will try the escorts then sometime in SH4. I have it, but not installed at the moment. I thought I would give it another year of modding and see if it got patched again.

I play SH3/GWX2, AOD, and SHCE. As far as escort difficulty goes, in particular breaking contact once detected, I think AOD has the hardest escorts I have seen.

The trick you mention which I often do with SHCE, is virtually impossible to pull off with AOD. That is baiting the escorts such that you can force a group attack which causes them to mainly end up in one quadrant with evading in the opposite direction. In AOD, they form a circle, coordinate, and take turns attacking. Thus, at the point that you reach about 5 escorts in AOD, there is no longer an escape window to slip through. In SHCE, you still have a chance pulling them all off to one quadrant. That's why in AOD it is so critically important to learn the art of attacking followed by displacing and disengaging without ever being detected. That's what keeps you alive. If you should be detected, then you need to break contact as quick as possible while their numbers are still low, since each minute brings you close to being completely encircled.

Rockin Robbins · 01-27-08, 09:56 PM

It's a way of life with max 3 kt silent speed and 30 knot escorts. Life is tough in WWII subs of either side.

We get our licks, they get theirs.

You know, waiting for patches is a losing proposition. You could be enjoying the greatest sub simulation ever right now. I loved the game even in patch 1.2 and it's twice as good now. Come on in, the water's warm!

Quillan · 01-27-08, 09:58 PM

The longer the time between firing and impact, the greater your chances of getting away without being detected. I've made a couple of attacks at ~8000 yards (not by choice, it was the only chance I'd get) and since it took about 8 minutes between firing and impact I had plenty of time after firing to dive deep and maneuver away. In shallow water you can't dive deep, but still long range shots make it more likely for you to evade. Of course, they're harder.

MarkShot · 01-27-08, 10:11 PM

Yep, increasing the time to impact is important.

Next, increasing your initial distance from the escorts is important, since that also buys time.

Finally, I know in SH3/SH4, the AI has hearing that rivals modern towed arrays, but in AOD immediately after shooting that is when a well timed deep dive and sprint can save you. You have maybe a 4-8 minutes that you can run at high speed before they get close enough to track you. So, you want to put distance between where you shot from (since that is where they will look) and where you are when they reach that location.

Also, you should have your escape route selected. Usually, heading under the convoy and exiting out the back is a decent idea. The escorts if they don't have too good idea of where you shot from will assemble for the search on the side of the convoy upon which the fish struck.

When they get close after you have slowed to 1kts, you go as deep as you can for as long as your compressed air can keep you from flooding (about one hour). That will make it harder for them.

If you did it right, rather than getting a few HSS LOBs surrounding you, they will be mainly off to one side and they where appear to oscillate back on forth. That means that they have picked another location and are circling it and not you! You should get to hear depth charges in the distance.

Then, you just crawl quietly away.

Rockin Robbins · 01-27-08, 11:08 PM

Quillan, I shoot to kill. Get in under 800 yards, loose two, one for the bow and one for the stern, dive and pay the price, then come back and do it all over again.

If we're gonna get depth charged anyway, might as well have something to show for it besides just empty torpedo tubes.

Now if the sun will just hurry up and go down!!! Looks like party time tonight.

Snuffy · 01-28-08, 10:52 AM

Do a search on the forums here for posts by Ducimus ... he has a very well illustrated post on how sonar/radar works.

And as he and others have said, the thermal layer is not a door to block, but rather a screen that makes it harder for you to be detected.

DavyJonesFootlocker · 01-28-08, 11:02 AM

I've been sneaking into enemy harbors in shallow waters all the time. No one sees me in day or night. When DDs depth-charges me they are somewhat ineffective. Perhaps the depth has something to do with it. In external view I saw one DC just bump off the conning tower.

Captain Vlad · 01-29-08, 01:07 AM

I hate shallow water, but you can pull off successful attacks there. A recent misadventure in the Celebes Sea had me using the periscope at flank speed underwater so I could see the looming shape of the destroyer. I would then turn away from him and watch him drop his charges behind me.

After a real-time hour of this, I got into 100 feet of water or more, and after his lastest run, went to 1 knot and silent running about the same time the DCs went off. Crawled away at minimum speed, and when I upped scope a while later to see if I was clear, I could see his superstructure jutting over the horizon. He was sitting there waiting on me to make a noise.

ReallyDedPoet · 01-28-08, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkShot

Well, maybe I will try the escorts then sometime in SH4. I have it, but not installed at the moment. I thought I would give it another year of modding and see if it got patched again.

SH4 as it stands it quite enjoyable now

. There are some great mods, with many more come I am sure.

RDP

01-27-08, 09:51 PM	#1
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	Well, maybe I will try the escorts then sometime in SH4. I have it, but not installed at the moment. I thought I would give it another year of modding and see if it got patched again. I play SH3/GWX2, AOD, and SHCE. As far as escort difficulty goes, in particular breaking contact once detected, I think AOD has the hardest escorts I have seen. The trick you mention which I often do with SHCE, is virtually impossible to pull off with AOD. That is baiting the escorts such that you can force a group attack which causes them to mainly end up in one quadrant with evading in the opposite direction. In AOD, they form a circle, coordinate, and take turns attacking. Thus, at the point that you reach about 5 escorts in AOD, there is no longer an escape window to slip through. In SHCE, you still have a chance pulling them all off to one quadrant. That's why in AOD it is so critically important to learn the art of attacking followed by displacing and disengaging without ever being detected. That's what keeps you alive. If you should be detected, then you need to break contact as quick as possible while their numbers are still low, since each minute brings you close to being completely encircled. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

01-27-08, 09:56 PM	#2
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	ah.... completely encircled It's a way of life with max 3 kt silent speed and 30 knot escorts. Life is tough in WWII subs of either side. We get our licks, they get theirs. You know, waiting for patches is a losing proposition. You could be enjoying the greatest sub simulation ever right now. I loved the game even in patch 1.2 and it's twice as good now. Come on in, the water's warm! __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

01-27-08, 09:58 PM	#3
Quillan Samurai Navy Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 579 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	The longer the time between firing and impact, the greater your chances of getting away without being detected. I've made a couple of attacks at ~8000 yards (not by choice, it was the only chance I'd get) and since it took about 8 minutes between firing and impact I had plenty of time after firing to dive deep and maneuver away. In shallow water you can't dive deep, but still long range shots make it more likely for you to evade. Of course, they're harder. __________________ We, the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do anything with nothing.

01-27-08, 10:11 PM	#4
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	Yep, increasing the time to impact is important. Next, increasing your initial distance from the escorts is important, since that also buys time. Finally, I know in SH3/SH4, the AI has hearing that rivals modern towed arrays, but in AOD immediately after shooting that is when a well timed deep dive and sprint can save you. You have maybe a 4-8 minutes that you can run at high speed before they get close enough to track you. So, you want to put distance between where you shot from (since that is where they will look) and where you are when they reach that location. Also, you should have your escape route selected. Usually, heading under the convoy and exiting out the back is a decent idea. The escorts if they don't have too good idea of where you shot from will assemble for the search on the side of the convoy upon which the fish struck. When they get close after you have slowed to 1kts, you go as deep as you can for as long as your compressed air can keep you from flooding (about one hour). That will make it harder for them. If you did it right, rather than getting a few HSS LOBs surrounding you, they will be mainly off to one side and they where appear to oscillate back on forth. That means that they have picked another location and are circling it and not you! You should get to hear depth charges in the distance. Then, you just crawl quietly away. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

01-27-08, 11:08 PM	#5
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Not my style. Quillan, I shoot to kill. Get in under 800 yards, loose two, one for the bow and one for the stern, dive and pay the price, then come back and do it all over again. If we're gonna get depth charged anyway, might as well have something to show for it besides just empty torpedo tubes. Now if the sun will just hurry up and go down!!! Looks like party time tonight. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

01-28-08, 10:52 AM	#6
Snuffy XO Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 420 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Do a search on the forums here for posts by Ducimus ... he has a very well illustrated post on how sonar/radar works. And as he and others have said, the thermal layer is not a door to block, but rather a screen that makes it harder for you to be detected. __________________ ----------------- Snuffy!

01-28-08, 11:02 AM	#7
DavyJonesFootlocker The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Stink Drunk in Trinidad Posts: 1,572 Downloads: 138 Uploads: 0	I've been sneaking into enemy harbors in shallow waters all the time. No one sees me in day or night. When DDs depth-charges me they are somewhat ineffective. Perhaps the depth has something to do with it. In external view I saw one DC just bump off the conning tower. __________________ "Silence means death. Stand on your feet. Inner fear your worst enemy."- Sepultura. My Silent Hunter 5 mantra is this......"Torpedo missed, sir!" A P-400 is a P-40 with a Zero after it. A proud member of the Wikipedia Haters Club

01-29-08, 01:07 AM	#8
Captain Vlad Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pollard, Oklahoma Posts: 679 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I hate shallow water, but you can pull off successful attacks there. A recent misadventure in the Celebes Sea had me using the periscope at flank speed underwater so I could see the looming shape of the destroyer. I would then turn away from him and watch him drop his charges behind me. After a real-time hour of this, I got into 100 feet of water or more, and after his lastest run, went to 1 knot and silent running about the same time the DCs went off. Crawled away at minimum speed, and when I upped scope a while later to see if I was clear, I could see his superstructure jutting over the horizon. He was sitting there waiting on me to make a noise. __________________ "Stop sounding battlestations just to hear the alarm."