sub batteries

[candy2500]

Greetings..

well been playing SH3 for a bit and decided to try out SH4 so i went out and got it, so far its not in as bad as shape as i had thought it was, but is the battery consumption right, it just seems like its draining to fast and if its not accurate is there a little mod to fix it... thanks.

[Ducimus]

Sure, see the stickies, theres all sorts of mods. Hell, its regular salad bar. :rotfl:

[panthercules]

Originally Posted by candy2500

Greetings..

well been playing SH3 for a bit and decided to try out SH4 so i went out and got it, so far its not in as bad as shape as i had thought it was, but is the battery consumption right, it just seems like its draining to fast and if its not accurate is there a little mod to fix it... thanks.

I hope somebody pops in and says they have a fix, but as far as I know this is one key area of the game that's been broken and seems to have no fix. There was a lot of work/testing done a while back, and there are some mods and tweaks that make it better than stock, but still nothing that I've seen or heard about seems to come close to getting it right yet

That this wasn't fixed was one of my biggest disappointments about the 1.4 patch.

I'm hoping maybe I just missed the fix while I was off on vacation or something, but I don't think so.

[Archie]

Originally Posted by panthercules

I hope somebody pops in and says they have a fix, but as far as I know this is one key area of the game that's been broken and seems to have no fix. There was a lot of work/testing done a while back, and there are some mods and tweaks that make it better than stock, but still nothing that I've seen or heard about seems to come close to getting it right yet

That this wasn't fixed was one of my biggest disappointments about the 1.4 patch.

I'm hoping maybe I just missed the fix while I was off on vacation or something, but I don't think so.

^^ What Duci said, he fixed it in TM for starters.

[Ducimus]

"fixing" the batteries is a relativly easy fix... except for the S class, that one remains illusive. All one has to do, is adjust the max range @ speed variables in the sub.sim file. I know in TM, running at 2 kts for 12 hours, you'll only use up maybe 25% of your battery or less. You could probably run for 2 days at a 2kts speed before running your batts down to 0.

[candy2500]

thanks for the reply guys, so far I've not found SH4 to be the big mess everyone has said it was, just have to get used to the different layout.

[Ducimus]

I didnt like the SH4 control layout either, thats why i changed it to Sh3's.

[Roger Dodger]

Originally Posted by candy2500

thanks for the reply guys, so far I've not found SH4 to be the big mess everyone has said it was, just have to get used to the different layout.

I never thought of SH4 as a 'mess', in fact I thought it was pretty good. But, then, I was still hung up on 'Silent Service' on the Amiga. There was a noticible amount of disappointment, though, hence the reason for this forum and the one on the UBI site.

With only two 'Supermods' you can get everything that was dreamed of for this Sim. For all the tweaks, fixes, eye-candy and everything else that makes this a Sim worth playing, you should install 'Trigger Maru 175'. This Supermod combines many of the other fine mods into just one to install. Thank Ducimus for putting it together and for adding his great additions to it too.

The second mod is Lurker's 'Run Silent, Run Deep Campaign' that makes for much more historical ship movements. A lot of research and work went into this very fine mod.

If you have a VERY capable computer, I would suggest the late LeoVampire's 'Reflections on the Water' MOD. I've seen screen shots of this one, and the graphics are very realistic. My own computer can just barely play this game, so I don't dare challange it this much.

[Roger Dodger]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

"fixing" the batteries is a relativly easy fix... except for the S class, that one remains illusive. All one has to do, is adjust the max range @ speed variables in the sub.sim file. I know in TM, running at 2 kts for 12 hours, you'll only use up maybe 25% of your battery or less. You could probably run for 2 days at a 2kts speed before running your batts down to 0.

I don't think the batteries on the S-Boats can be 'fixed'. The S-Boats only had two engines, and underpowered at that, so recharge time would be considerably longer than the more modern fleet boats. Teaches the captains to be real conservative about battery use. I think the batteries were smaller on the S-Boats too, so submerged time would be shorter.

Thanks for fixing the batteries on the other boats.

[Mush Martin]

Hey Candy I left an answer for this on the other board too.
but you will have figured it out by now.

regards
M

[Go4It]

If I remember rigth the S Class engine an battery HP is reversed, If u switch the values you get better battery charging.

I got these HP figures off the net
S 42
Max power (in hp) 2000 surfaced; 1500 submerged

If u look in the sim file u'll see the submerged HP is way above the surfaced HP

[panthercules]

Originally Posted by Archie

^^ What Duci said, he fixed it in TM for starters.

Well, there must be something more to it than he indicated. I've tried 30 or 40+ combinations of numbers in those values and have never been able to stretch battery life beyond about 30 hours at 2 knots. Since it's been a while since I did those tests, I just D/L'ed the latest TM and checked the values in the files, and then checked my current RFB/RSRD/ROW install - I was planning to change mine to match the TM settings and test it, but it turned out they were already the same as the TM settings.

I ran the test anyway, and just like before it only took 29.5 hours to go from full battery to 10% battery at 2 knots in a Salmon class. Historically (according to all the info I've been able to find), that figure should be about 44 hours instead (was supposed to be about 48 hours at 2 knots total). Therefore, even with the TM settings battery life appears to be only about 2/3rds of "real".

As I said - that's better than stock for sure, but it's still not fixed/right. If TM is really getting better results closer to the historical figures, can someone post what the other settings are that have been changed to get this to work?

[Roger Dodger]

S-Boat (Group I)
Propulsion: 2 x New London Ship and Engine Company (NELSECO) diesels, 1,200 hp (895 kW) each
2 x Electro Dynamic (S-1, S-30-S-35), Ridgway (S-18, S-20 through S-29), or General Electric (S-36 through S-41) motors, 750 hp(550 kW) each
120 cell Exide battery
two shafts
Speed: 14.5 knots (27 km/h) surfaced; 11 knots (20 km/h) submerged
Range: 5,000 miles (8,000 km) at 10 knots (19 km/h) surfaced
Submerged Range/Endurance not found

Gato Class
Propulsion and power:4x diesel 5400hp
4x electric motors 2740hp
2 × 126-cell Sargo batteries
2 shafts
Speed:
Surfaced:20.25 design/ 17knots operational
Submerged:8.75knots
Range:
Surfaced:12,000nm at 10knots
Submerged:95nm at 5knots
Endurance:48 hours at 2 knots (4 km/h) submerged
75 days on patrol

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ed_States_Navy

Given the above specs, I would expect the S-Boats to have 1/2 the endurance submerged and take twice the time to fully re-charge its (single) battery compared to the Fleet Boats.

[candy2500]

Originally Posted by Mush Martin

Hey Candy I left an answer for this on the other board too.
but you will have figured it out by now.

regards
M

yeah i seen it today... thanks Mush Martin

[panthercules]

Originally Posted by Roger Dodger

S-Boat (Group I)
Propulsion: 2 x New London Ship and Engine Company (NELSECO) diesels, 1,200 hp (895 kW) each
2 x Electro Dynamic (S-1, S-30-S-35), Ridgway (S-18, S-20 through S-29), or General Electric (S-36 through S-41) motors, 750 hp(550 kW) each
120 cell Exide battery
two shafts
Speed: 14.5 knots (27 km/h) surfaced; 11 knots (20 km/h) submerged
Range: 5,000 miles (8,000 km) at 10 knots (19 km/h) surfaced
Submerged Range/Endurance not found

Gato Class
Propulsion and power:4x diesel 5400hp
4x electric motors 2740hp
2 × 126-cell Sargo batteries
2 shafts
Speed:
Surfaced:20.25 design/ 17knots operational
Submerged:8.75knots
Range:
Surfaced:12,000nm at 10knots
Submerged:95nm at 5knots
Endurance:48 hours at 2 knots (4 km/h) submerged
75 days on patrol

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ed_States_Navy

Given the above specs, I would expect the S-Boats to have 1/2 the endurance submerged and take twice the time to fully re-charge its (single) battery compared to the Fleet Boats.

Well, I wonder if batteries really work the way implied by these Wikipedia numbers. I remember seeing the 2 knots info before from other sources, but I don't really remember seeing the 5 knot info before - I'm going to have to try to find my old info that came from generally more reliable sources, but for now we'll deal with the Wikipedia numbers. For the Gato class, the Wikipedia info states both:

1. Range: Submerged:95nm at 5knots; and

2. Endurance:48 hours at 2 knots (4 km/h) submerged

Although this struck me as weird at first, upon further reflection this seems like it could be correct - while it seems obvious that the batteries won't last as long (in time) at the higher 5 knot speed as they will at the lower 2 knot speed, it's not clear why the batteries wouldn't be able to propel the boat about the same distance on the same amount of stored charge/energy regardless of the speed, and (per the Wiki numbers) 48 hours at 2 knots would be 96nm, essentially the same as the 95 nm listed at 5 knots. I don't know whether travel at the higher 5 knot speed is inherently less energy-efficient than traveling at the lower 2 knot speed when traveling on batteries or not. With cars and their internal combustion gas-powered engines, once you reach some level going faster does burn more fuel per mile, but maybe it's not like that with electrically driven motors, at least maybe not within that relatively narrow speed range of 2-5 knots - does anybody know for sure?

However, regardless of whether both of these range/endurance formulations are correct, the game with the TM values mentioned above cannot achieve close to either one. As indicated in my post above, tests at 2 knots routinely generate ranges about 2/3rds what they "should" be. Just for grins, I just ran a test at 5 knots, and the batteries ran out in just 8 hours, after covering only 40nm - somewhat less than half as far/long as they should have been able to last if the Wiki numbers are correct.

Given the remote likelihood that enemy forces will stay on station and keep your sub pinned down for even 8 hours much less 30, this battery problem doesn't have much impact on convoy attacks in the open sea lanes, so maybe folks don't see this as a high priority problem to fix. However, this lack of battery staying power wreaks havoc on the ability to operate realistically in shallow waters near enemy territory (for agent/commando insertions, harbor recon missions, etc.), which is a big part of what makes a PTO subsim different in concept from an Atlantic simulator like SH3. Besides, battery propulsion of a submerged sub is a pretty central part of what being a sub simulator is all about, so it would be really nice if somebody could figure out how to get this fixed so the game would model this more correctly.