It's the final version that I am worried about ... National ID Card

[lesrae]

Originally Posted by MothBalls

Most Americans don't remember that a Social Security number was intended to be used to manage your SS account by the Federal Government and nothing else. Now 50% of your identity is tied to it, including your credit rating, employment records, etc.

We're lucky, our National Insurance number (the closest equivalent) is only used by the government for tax and health purposes - it doesn't come in to credit or banking.

In the USA, do you have to carry your driving licence if you're driving a vehicle? It's one of those things I've got the idea of from TV. In the UK we don't, but we have to produce it at a police station within 2 weeks if requested.

[geetrue]

Originally Posted by lesrae

In the USA, do you have to carry your driving licence if you're driving a vehicle? It's one of those things I've got the idea of from TV. In the UK we don't, but we have to produce it at a police station within 2 weeks if requested.

Sounds a little laid back to me, "Oh I'm so sorry Mr Terroist you are parked in a no parking zone" "Could you please come down to the station in the next couple of weeks and show your drivers license"? "Just a mere formaility you understand"

Yes, we have to have registeration papers for the car we are driving and a valid drivers license or come down to the traffic court in the next thirty days to pay a fine.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

ID card = loss of privacy, loss of liberty and personal rights...

[geetrue]

Update on the National ID card:

Now it won't be law till 2017

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...news-a_section

WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration hit the brakes Friday on a controversial law requiring Americans to carry tamper-proof driver's licenses, delaying its final implementation by five years, until 2017

[STEED]

Originally Posted by elite_hunter_sh3

ID card = loss of privacy, loss of liberty and personal rights...

Correct.

Money is no longer power, information is.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by lesrae

In the USA, do you have to carry your driving licence if you're driving a vehicle? It's one of those things I've got the idea of from TV. In the UK we don't, but we have to produce it at a police station within 2 weeks if requested.

It may vary from state to state (driver licenses are issued by the states, not at the national level) but everywhere I've lived you had to have it if you were driving. Many functions here also require a photo ID, so most of us have it on our persons all the time anyway.

[lesrae]

Originally Posted by geetrue

Sounds a little laid back to me, "Oh I'm so sorry Mr Terroist you are parked in a no parking zone" "Could you please come down to the station in the next couple of weeks and show your drivers license"? "Just a mere formaility you understand"

Yes, we have to have registeration papers for the car we are driving and a valid drivers license or come down to the traffic court in the next thirty days to pay a fine.

Don't worry, they can still arrest you for failing to ID yourself properly if they want, or for a myriad of other reasons under the anti-terrorist laws.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

It may vary from state to state (driver licenses are issued by the states, not at the national level) but everywhere I've lived you had to have it if you were driving. Many functions here also require a photo ID, so most of us have it on our persons all the time anyway.

Cheers Steve, that's more where my thoughts were going - a lot of countries virtually have a mandatory ID card already, or their laws mean you may as well carry one.

IMO it'd be easier to carry one and be able to prove my identity on the spot and avoid all the crap. People extrapolating the introduction of the card into a 1984, surveillance style of society is a little extreme for my taste - but each to their own

[Peto]

Originally Posted by geetrue

“The American public’s desire for greater identity protection is undeniable,” said Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff. “Americans understand today that the 9/11 hijackers obtained 30 drivers licenses and ID’s, and used 364 aliases. For an extra $8 per license, REAL ID will give law enforcement and security officials a powerful advantage against falsified documents, and it will bring some peace of mind to citizens wanting to protect their identity from theft by a criminal or illegal alien.”

I have yet to talk to an American that believes this is a good idea. Although I'm sure they're out there. And since this Nat ID card isn't supposed to go into full swing until 2014, I doubt the threat of terrorism is what it's main thrust is. More likely, it'll just make tracking easier. Tracking what? Who? Everyone?

[Stealth Hunter]

Once again, if this passes in the United States then I'll simply move back home and call it a day. Seriously, the American government is trying to shove so many things up a citizen's ass it isn't even funny. Why don't you simply stick some tracking device in me that tells you what I'm doing, how I feel, and where I am along with EVERY piece of info about me?

National ID cards won't solve a damn thing. Building up border defences and arming the patrol units there with automatic weapons and the orders to shoot anyone who comes within 20 feet of the wall unless their presence was acknowledged ahead of time DOES solve the immigration problem (which thus gave us a week of CNN rambling on about Mexicans and immigration in 2006).

Terrorists aren't even a problem. They simply enter Mexico and cross the border like everyone else. They look enough like the Mexicans, and they're smarter and craftier than they are, too. They could get a job at any corporation in America (except the ones who now have the law on their asses for hiring illegals) and cause as much mayhem as they wanted to. We have some in the country in the moment. That's no secret; it's just old and annoying. One terrorist can't pull off another 9/11.

"I took jor job at Home Depot and jor womeng!"

[squigian]

^ Couldn't agree more.

What a lot of people forget as well is that many of these so-called terrorists are nothing more than incompetent and idle fantasists. Nothing that the real ones have to throw at the West can't be beaten with the intelligent use of already existing laws. Governments simply prefer the sledgehammer of liberty-stealing to the scalpel of good intelligence and creativity.

[Peto]

^^ What will most likely happen as the Govt tries to crack down on Civil Liberties in order to "make us safe", they will wind up creating a whole new breed of Domestic Terrorists. The greatest threat to a Democracy isn't from what lies outside it's borders. What goes on within the borders is much more dangerous.

Democracy Contained by a Government is potentially very explosive. I feel all our govt is doing at the moment is trying to light the fuse of a stick of dynamite that they may not be able to handle...

[Peto]

Additional thoughts on Natiional ID: Creating a NID is just another way of removing States Rights. When the States lose their rights to the Federal Government, the individual falls more under control of a single entity that has less concern for him/her than it does for preserving its own hold on power. Democracy in such a situation applies only if the Controlling Factor agrees with a consensus opinion. If it does not, it can easily over-rule that consensus and put in place its own agenda.

Sound familiar?