Dear Joea - Americans over China pre WWII

joea · 01-10-08, 04:15 PM

Aww a thread for me.

Ok I went over the top yesterday, still I do take issue with your historical schema, you just seem to want to fit everything into this schema with sometimes, IMHO, shaky evidence. Other times you are on more solid ground so yea I agree with you (Spanish-American war, or this Iran thing for example). I just hate the attitude of "dude I learned the truth and am not a sheeple anymore like you guys" that's all.

The US is just like any other country, acting in their interest and willing to change policy, I don't see an eternal policy of hidden conspiracies guiding it any more than any other power. Context counts for a lot. In the context of what we are discussing, the US did not actively take sides in the Sino-Japanese war when it started in 1937 (though they always had an "Open Door" policy, even in the 19th Century when so many were getting foreign concessions) despite the bombing of the Panay and the Rape of Nanking etc.

In 1940-41 though, it seemed that the Axis was triumphant so the context changed. So far I think we agree on these facts. What I don't agree with you guys is the attitude that somehow the US just choose to piss off the Japanese who were involved in a quarrel with their neighbour so they could get into the war (in Europe especially, for which there was no guarantee, after all Hitler did not have to declare war on the US). While I do not want to overstate the moral element, I am always astounded as to how people forget that China actually comes in 2nd place after the USSR in total war dead. The aggression by the Japanese militarists was at least as bad as that of the Nazis in Poland, the last and I would say the worst of the series of humliations by foreign countries. I honestly think people forget that, just like they forget there were other victims of Nazism besides Jews.

Of course I do not think we should forget the nasty things the Allies did, and I do agree there were some bad questionable interventions by the US since then.

Anyway, peace.

P.S. Lord of the Rings still rocks.

01-10-08, 04:15 PM	#3
joea Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: At periscope depth in Lake Geneva Posts: 3,512 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Aww a thread for me. Ok I went over the top yesterday, still I do take issue with your historical schema, you just seem to want to fit everything into this schema with sometimes, IMHO, shaky evidence. Other times you are on more solid ground so yea I agree with you (Spanish-American war, or this Iran thing for example). I just hate the attitude of "dude I learned the truth and am not a sheeple anymore like you guys" that's all. The US is just like any other country, acting in their interest and willing to change policy, I don't see an eternal policy of hidden conspiracies guiding it any more than any other power. Context counts for a lot. In the context of what we are discussing, the US did not actively take sides in the Sino-Japanese war when it started in 1937 (though they always had an "Open Door" policy, even in the 19th Century when so many were getting foreign concessions) despite the bombing of the Panay and the Rape of Nanking etc. In 1940-41 though, it seemed that the Axis was triumphant so the context changed. So far I think we agree on these facts. What I don't agree with you guys is the attitude that somehow the US just choose to piss off the Japanese who were involved in a quarrel with their neighbour so they could get into the war (in Europe especially, for which there was no guarantee, after all Hitler did not have to declare war on the US). While I do not want to overstate the moral element, I am always astounded as to how people forget that China actually comes in 2nd place after the USSR in total war dead. The aggression by the Japanese militarists was at least as bad as that of the Nazis in Poland, the last and I would say the worst of the series of humliations by foreign countries. I honestly think people forget that, just like they forget there were other victims of Nazism besides Jews. Of course I do not think we should forget the nasty things the Allies did, and I do agree there were some bad questionable interventions by the US since then. Anyway, peace. P.S. Lord of the Rings still rocks.