Lack of aircraft in GWX 2.0

I just want to verify that running anything over X128 will impact aircraft encounters; correct?
That's gonna make running patrols to the Caribbean a bit long. --wry grin--

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by Albrecht Von Hesse

I just want to verify that running anything over X128 will impact aircraft encounters; correct?
That's gonna make running patrols to the Caribbean a bit long. --wry grin--

Yes TC DOES influence how many air attacks you may receive.

Even low TC does... just not as bad as high TC.

Anything above 256x TC virtually eliminates air attacks.

The short explaination: computational lag by the SH3 engine created by each increment of TC allows units to zip by you without ever seeing you. The opposite is true also.

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Yes TC DOES influence how many air attacks you may receive.

Even low TC does... just not as bad as high TC.

Anything above 256x TC virtually eliminates air attacks.

The short explaination: computational lag by the SH3 engine created by each increment of TC allows units to zip by you without ever seeing you. The opposite is true also.

Okies. Thanks.
Odd as this might sound but I'd rather run at the lower compression to keep the chances of air encounters 'real'. But that's a killer on those gawdawful transatlantic jaunts. Are there reasonable points when heading cross-Atlantic (or, for that matter, down to the tip of Africa) where running at higher compression won't 'cheat'? Much as I dislike air encounters --grins-- I also don't want to be driving my boat 'claoked' from them either.

[TarJak]

Using SH3 Commander I've bumped the max TC up to 2048 to speed up the Trans-Atlantic crossing. I normally run out to around 500km at 128 or less to keep the air attacks "real", then ramp up to 2048 for the main jaunt across the pond, and at around 500km from the US coast drop back to 128 again. I managed to finish a Drumbeat patrol the other night in less than 5 hours elapsed real time. Game time was over 8 weeks most of which was spent at high TC on the two crossings.

[Schwuppes]

This thread explains to me why I encountered no more than 2 (!!) aircraft from 1939 to mid 1943 in my last GWX 1.03 career, I was using 1024 TC too often.

Yer I guess thats a reasonable compromise Tarjack. I think I will do the same when I start my new GWX 2.0 career.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Just speaking for myself... I wish I had the time to run around at nothing but 1x TC.

[BulSoldier]

DAmn i thought the only thing high tc affects is the time we spot the flying machines.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Albrecht Von Hesse

Okies. Thanks.
Odd as this might sound but I'd rather run at the lower compression to keep the chances of air encounters 'real'. But that's a killer on those gawdawful transatlantic jaunts. Are there reasonable points when heading cross-Atlantic (or, for that matter, down to the tip of Africa) where running at higher compression won't 'cheat'? Much as I dislike air encounters --grins-- I also don't want to be driving my boat 'claoked' from them either.

Look at the SH3 Map and study the air coverage circles 'year by year'. I find that a good rule of thumb guide for increasing to high TC

[gimpy117]

well, it's 1939.....

ive already gotten jumped by a flight of 3 russian bombers after i sent a contact report..

[Hitman]

The short explaination: computational lag by the SH3 engine created by each increment of TC allows units to zip by you without ever seeing you. The opposite is true also.

Nice that this got solved in SH4, pity it still happens in SH3

Anyway, I have noticed that in later war years the effect is greatly diminished by the aircraft radar

Since their detection range is increased a lot, it is harder for them to fly by at hight TC without noticing you. If I had the skills and knowledge, I would like to see what happens if placing a visual node with huge detection ranges in early war aircrafts. Probably they would detect you easier at higher TC and that would solve a part of the problem? :hmm: Well I suppose if the GWX guys haven't done it before, then that's because it doesn't work

[bigboywooly]

Could work Hitman
The trouble with high TC is by the time the game drops to 1x to let you know the aircraft would be already on you
Shipping does a similar thing
Was running through the channel the other night 1940 at 4096TC
I know
Was attacked by 3 warships on seperate occasions
All 3 times when the game had dropped to low TC I was already under attack and they were REAL close
Damaged before the game could drop to 1

But you are right ,in later years the radar will drop TC whatever speed you were going
Again they can be real close the higher your TC at the time

[Biggles]

Always thinks it turns to laggy when using 4096TC. I'd use max the TC before that, and especially if I was foolish enough to go through the channel!

Oh, and I haven't met any airplanes yet. Operating outside Norway now in April 1940. You'd think the Luftwaffe would drop by from time to time....

[johnno74]

Does anyone know if the missing aircraft at high TC effect is reduced on a fast machine?

Aircraft miss you because their position is calculated in steps, which get bigger as you increase TC. at 1x TC the "refresh time" of the game world is around 20 times a second... at 1024 its more like once every 10 minutes.

But if you have a faster CPU the game could in theory use smaller steps, updating the game world more often at high TC, allowing you to use high TC without missing aircraft, or dropping out of TC with the bombs already on their way down...

So the question is: Is the calculation step size fixed, regardless of your pc's specs? I'm inclined to believe the game DOES vary the size of the calculation steps, because of the effect when you are near a harbour or a convoy at high TC - the map update slows to a crawl, sometimes only once a second or so, but while the framerate drops, the distance you travel each frame increases to try and maintain the same overall TC, indicating a very large calculation step.

I used to play SH3 on my desktop pc, a 2ghz athlon64 and I noticed the missing aircraft at high TC a lot. Now I play on my 2ghz core 2 duo laptop (even though the mhz is the same, the core2 is a LOT faster than an old athlon64) and I seem to get more aircraft at high TC.

Has anyone played SH3 on different machines and noticed this?

Ok, I've no real idea how aircraft 'appear' in the game, so if this sounds idiotic please forgive me.

I'm assuming that, like convoys and singletons, that the actual 'physical' entity appears (spawns) when your U-boat is within a certain radius of where the ship(s) are projected to be. If that's the case, is there any way the act of spawning could be used as a trigger somehow to knock TC back? I've no idea how the mechanics of event triggers and spawning work, so I'm not sure if this is really off-the-wall or not.

I do know that when I'm tooling along at 512X or higher I always know when there is a convoy in the area because all of a sudden my 'clock' starts lagging like slogging through mollasses, and my cursor starts moving real slow and jerky. I'm guessing that's because the game has to start populating the actual ships instead of just moving them as a programmed blip of code.

I'm kind of torn here. I dislike knowing I'm avoiding aircraft (I know; sounds silly, no?) by running 'cloaked' at higher TC, but I also dislike spending tremendous amounts of time heading to and fro patrol areas and convoy lanes at quite low TC.

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

Was attacked by 3 warships on seperate occasions
All 3 times when the game had dropped to low TC I was already under attack and they were REAL close
Damaged before the game could drop to 1

Had that happen to me several times in the past, especially during periods of poor visibility (ex. heavy precipitation, heavy fog). By the time it dropped me to 1X the DD was less than 100 meters away and I'd already been critically damaged. Now I'm in the habit that any time visibility sucks I'm running ahead slow and TC between 64 and 128. So far that's kept me from being pounced and pounded.

As long as I'm wishing --grins-- I wish radio contact reports dropped TC down, too. Getting a radio report does, but a radio contact report doesn't. --mutters--

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by Hitman

Nice that this got solved in SH4, pity it still happens in SH3

Anyway, I have noticed that in later war years the effect is greatly diminished by the aircraft radar

Since their detection range is increased a lot, it is harder for them to fly by at hight TC without noticing you. If I had the skills and knowledge, I would like to see what happens if placing a visual node with huge detection ranges in early war aircrafts. Probably they would detect you easier at higher TC and that would solve a part of the problem? :hmm: Well I suppose if the GWX guys haven't done it before, then that's because it doesn't work

Well Hitman, you've actually hit on something there that has been experimented with.

There are at least two factors that influence detection at elevated TC levels. There is the computational lag that was discussed.

However, the other thing that I am aware of that can influence matters are the "sweep" speeds of the sensors. If you increase the sweep speed, you have in a sense 'ubered' the sensor.

The problem with speeding up the sweep speed of the various sensors... (visual, radar, RWR, hydrophones etc) is that it basically makes them operate at an unreal level of effectiveness. Sensors should not be 100% effective 100% of the time... This is especially true of the 'visual' sensor.

Hydrophones in real life could detect a single merchant in the region of approximately 20 nm away, while the same hydrophone set could detect a convoy 100 nm away.

In SH3 hydrophones can only have one maximum range and sensitivity setting. The outer ranges for the hydrophones are set for a lesser effectiveness or 'signal strength detection' capability.

Increasing the sensor sweep basically makes the outer ranges again 100% effective.

Increasing the sensors sweep times can also cause a watch crewman see perfectly to the maximum possible distance in pitch darkness... at 3:00 A.M./0300 in the morning.

Also, speeding up the sensor sweep times puts a much higher load on your processor... as each unit in SH3 has various combinations of sensors... each sweeping at speeds that are relevant to a real-life bsaed comparison and balance against the limitations of what can be represented in-game.

Rubini's 'Stay Alert' mods increase the sweep speed of the visual and hydrophone sensors on the player subs... at the cost of making detection capabilities always in the player's favor... and reintroducing the old 'vampire night vision' bug in SH3.

How this relates to GWX users:
Naturally, players can choose to use these mods. However, for the reasons stated above, they will not become part of the GWX default package.

I mean no offense to Rubini. He's given an enormous ammount of good work to the Grey Wolves and the community... especially in relation to campaign coding... but he and I have fundamentally different ideas on what things would be good for the sensors in in SH3.

Lower TC is always going to be the best way to go... as it allows the engine to process changing data more effectively. Furthermore, as Albrecht von Hesse describes, lower TC reduces the FPS hit that occurs when a convoy renders into existence nearby in SH3.

Some measure of patience will always be required of players to get the most out of SH3.