SH3's flawed sub physics?[A request]

VipertheSniper · 12-04-07, 03:42 PM

You haven't by any chance interrupted a crash dive before you observed that behaviour? Because interrupted crash dives cause this behaviour, the speed doesn't really matter I think.

Castout · 12-04-07, 03:49 PM

Hmm I don't think I ordered crash dive the last time I tried this out. Ordering less than 3 knots like 2 or 1 knots to simulate silent running would cause our U-boats to sink slowly. You can try to order all stop while submerged(preferabbly at some deep depths like 200m) and you'll notice that your sub will slowly sink to the bottom during all stop. It will start to sink at speed below 3 knots or at ordered speed below ahead slow.

VipertheSniper · 12-04-07, 03:54 PM

Hmm I've never noticed behaviour like this, with GWX not at all because of the positive bouyancy mod, and not in stock SH3 either, although I would've liked to see it like it was in AOD, atleast under silent running, where the boat slowly began to sink after some time in silent running.

Castout · 12-04-07, 04:02 PM

Ju_88 you said it has been corrected in mods before, could you point me to at least one? I hate it when my sub starts to sink everytime I try to simulate a silent running.

Yes I'm aware that in RL the boat would try to compansate for loss weight after launching its eel(s) I do not expect a game physics to be that accurate but this incapability to simulate silent running is really fundamental imo especially when DDs are going to detect(hear) our boat much harder if we order a very slow speed. It's just that our boat refuses to float unless it's moving at a certain minimum speed which is totally unrealistic imo. Makes me feel like i'm flying not sailing an underwater craft

@Kpt Lehmann is it true? it doesn't occur in stock SH3? Okay let me play test this further.

Kpt. Lehmann · 12-04-07, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castout

@Kpt Lehmann is it true? it doesn't occur in stock SH3? Okay let me play test this further.

Yes it is true. In un-moddified stock SH3 version 1.4b, with an undamage U-boat you can come to "All-Stop" and maintain whatever depth you choose.

What is truely needed to represent historical accuracy is the ability of the player to set variable bouyancy, and for compressed air to be used gradually in the effort to maintain a given depth.
This is not possible in SH3. ("not possible" is usually not in my vocabulary)

Castout · 12-04-07, 05:00 PM

Yes you're right Kpt Lehmann in stock SH3 you can at least with type IX and type VIIB to maintain depth with very low speeds or at all stop at any depths.

Maybe my first post was specific to type VIIC/41 or I was interrupting a crash dive order.

Yea too bad SH3 doesn't take into account the compressed air used during depth changing. That would be so very cool. Anyone tried to mod this

?

I have another question more like an idea on modding 'rig for silent running' command, a simple one really but I think I prfer to start a whole new thread for it.

JU_88 · 12-04-07, 05:04 PM

When I said corrected - I meant negative/positive boyency was added - in stock Sh3 the uboat can hover like a humming bird, just as the Kpt already pointed out.

Sailor Steve · 12-04-07, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castout

It's just that our boat refuses to float unless it's moving at a certain minimum speed which is totally unrealistic imo. Makes me feel like i'm flying not sailing an underwater craft

Why would that be unrealistic? At the beginning of the patrol, and every chance they got during it they did re-trim the boat, but any time you're in a position to need to run silent you have likely
1) Fired torpedoes, and

2) Been consuming food, water and fuel without time for a new trim dive.

Both of which will leave the boat likely to either rise or sink. This can be easily countered with the pumps, but when 'Silent Running' the pumps have to be off. In World War Two it was nearly impossible to get a boat to hover without moving, especially in a combat situation. One of the beauties of good old Aces Of the Deep was that after silent running for awhile the Chief would tell you "Captain, it is impossible to maintain depth without running the pumps".

I think the sinking is one of the most realistic mods.

Quote:

@Kpt Lehmann is it true? it doesn't occur in stock SH3? Okay let me play test this further.

Yes, it's true. In stock SH3 you can hover the boat forever.

Castout · 12-04-07, 07:56 PM

Really? Thanks for the history lesson. On my second thoughts I'm actually happy with it sinking...no pumps eh?

Now if the modders can make the interior lights stay turned off for awhile after a close depth charging........"We are at 220m Sir!!!!!!!"
Any way to make the lights off much longer? GUI doesn't need to be messed with. They did already have flashlights. Hey this may be the topic of another thread. I'll make one for this.

Anybody worked on the compressed air mod stuff?

12-14-07, 12:56 AM

I do recall reading years ago that subs in WWII had to keep a slight forward movement going in order to maintain a stable depth level. Part of holding to a depth was done by the use of the diving planes which required at a minimum a slight forward motion. I'd have to go back through all the U-boat books I ever read to find the quote. But I recall the words of it everytime I am setting motionless at periscope depth. I am always thinking: this would be impossible in real life.

12-04-07, 03:49 PM	#2
Castout Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 4,794 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 6	Hmm I don't think I ordered crash dive the last time I tried this out. Ordering less than 3 knots like 2 or 1 knots to simulate silent running would cause our U-boats to sink slowly. You can try to order all stop while submerged(preferabbly at some deep depths like 200m) and you'll notice that your sub will slowly sink to the bottom during all stop. It will start to sink at speed below 3 knots or at ordered speed below ahead slow. __________________ My blog: http://exposingsingapore.wordpress.com/

12-04-07, 04:02 PM	#4
Castout Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 4,794 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 6	Ju_88 you said it has been corrected in mods before, could you point me to at least one? I hate it when my sub starts to sink everytime I try to simulate a silent running. Yes I'm aware that in RL the boat would try to compansate for loss weight after launching its eel(s) I do not expect a game physics to be that accurate but this incapability to simulate silent running is really fundamental imo especially when DDs are going to detect(hear) our boat much harder if we order a very slow speed. It's just that our boat refuses to float unless it's moving at a certain minimum speed which is totally unrealistic imo. Makes me feel like i'm flying not sailing an underwater craft @Kpt Lehmann is it true? it doesn't occur in stock SH3? Okay let me play test this further. __________________ My blog: http://exposingsingapore.wordpress.com/

12-04-07, 05:00 PM	#6
Castout Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 4,794 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 6	Yes you're right Kpt Lehmann in stock SH3 you can at least with type IX and type VIIB to maintain depth with very low speeds or at all stop at any depths. Maybe my first post was specific to type VIIC/41 or I was interrupting a crash dive order. Yea too bad SH3 doesn't take into account the compressed air used during depth changing. That would be so very cool. Anyone tried to mod this? I have another question more like an idea on modding 'rig for silent running' command, a simple one really but I think I prfer to start a whole new thread for it. __________________ My blog: http://exposingsingapore.wordpress.com/

12-04-07, 07:56 PM	#9
Castout Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 4,794 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 6	Really? Thanks for the history lesson. On my second thoughts I'm actually happy with it sinking...no pumps eh? Now if the modders can make the interior lights stay turned off for awhile after a close depth charging........"We are at 220m Sir!!!!!!!" Any way to make the lights off much longer? GUI doesn't need to be messed with. They did already have flashlights. Hey this may be the topic of another thread. I'll make one for this. Anybody worked on the compressed air mod stuff? __________________ My blog: http://exposingsingapore.wordpress.com/ Last edited by Castout; 12-04-07 at 08:25 PM.

12-14-07, 12:56 AM	#10
Wave Skipper Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I do recall I do recall reading years ago that subs in WWII had to keep a slight forward movement going in order to maintain a stable depth level. Part of holding to a depth was done by the use of the diving planes which required at a minimum a slight forward motion. I'd have to go back through all the U-boat books I ever read to find the quote. But I recall the words of it everytime I am setting motionless at periscope depth. I am always thinking: this would be impossible in real life.

12-04-07, 03:42 PM	#1
VipertheSniper Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Austria Posts: 1,071 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	You haven't by any chance interrupted a crash dive before you observed that behaviour? Because interrupted crash dives cause this behaviour, the speed doesn't really matter I think.

12-04-07, 03:54 PM	#3
VipertheSniper Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Austria Posts: 1,071 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Hmm I've never noticed behaviour like this, with GWX not at all because of the positive bouyancy mod, and not in stock SH3 either, although I would've liked to see it like it was in AOD, atleast under silent running, where the boat slowly began to sink after some time in silent running.

12-04-07, 05:04 PM	#7
JU_88 Silent Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,803 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	When I said corrected - I meant negative/positive boyency was added - in stock Sh3 the uboat can hover like a humming bird, just as the Kpt already pointed out.