[REL] FooBor's High-res skins (clean & weathered)

[Doolittle81]

Could someone please post a bit of Historical Explanation of the various paint schemes?
That is, were the boats painted Black during certain periods of the war, and clean at others? [for example, B17's in Europe were initially camoflagued, then later went basic clean metal...while B-29's were never camoflagued to the best of my knowledge...likewise P51's and P-51's, early camo and late clean].

Were the boats painted differently when operating in different fleets or bases....or did they start out "clean" non-black from the Factory and get repainted later...or vice-versa? Were they re-painted between patrols(unlikely, I think).

To be historically accurate, I'd like to use the "right" skin for the time/year of any patrol...but I have no idea which would be the correct skin.

Thanks in advance

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by Doolittle81

Could someone please post a bit of Historical Explanation of the various paint schemes?
That is, were the boats painted Black during certain periods of the war, and clean at others? [for example, B17's in Europe were initially camoflagued, then later went basic clean metal...while B-29's were never camoflagued to the best of my knowledge...likewise P51's and P-51's, early camo and late clean].

Were the boats painted differently when operating in different fleets or bases....or did they start out "clean" non-black from the Factory and get repainted later...or vice-versa? Were they re-painted between patrols(unlikely, I think).

To be historically accurate, I'd like to use the "right" skin for the time/year of any patrol...but I have no idea which would be the correct skin.

Thanks in advance

No prolem Doolittle81

During World War II the USN used several different schemes or camoflage 'measures' as they were called. There are possibly 5 different measures that may have appeared on boats, 4 wartime and one, prewar, peacetime.

Prior to the war most boats AFAIK were painted in a light grey and black peacetime scheme. This had the upper hull, conning tower and any stantions or fittings in a very light grey and the lower hull (ie what would normally be below the WL) painted in black. Pennant numbers were conspiculously painted on the conning tower sides in white with a black shadow or white on a black square.



How soon after or before hostilities this measure was drooped I'm not sure but there may be a possibility that some boats were still in this scheme in the early days of the war.

The four wartime measures were

1. Measure 9. This measure instructed that submarines be painted in a overal black scheme. Sometimes the lower hull was painted in a protective red but all the upper hull, conning tower and any fixtures, fittings, DG etc were in black. This scheme was used from the start of the war until mid 1944, though the exact dates that boats were repainted in different measure vary.


2. Measure 10. This measure instructed that boats were painted in an overal blue grey scheme, using a colour called 'Ocean Grey'. Again its possible that some boats had their lower hulls in red. This scheme was used from about 1942. It wasn't as widely used as Measure 9 and was not well liked by sub crews, as the paint had a habbit of excessively fading in sunlight, often turning a milky grey.


3. Measure 32/3SSB. This measure is the one which US subs are usually displayed in and is the most attarctive. The measure called for the upper hull of the boat to be painted in a light blue grey colour which faded to black towards the stern of the boat. This could be a gradual feathered fade or it might end with a hard demarcation. Sometimes the fade was done with a transitional grey colour between the black and grey with a hard line. The decks were painted black and this sometimes extended over the sides of the hull slightly with a wavey, feathered, demarcation or sometimes hard demarcation. The black was sometimes gloss or it could be matt. The lower hull was always painted black. There could be quite a bit of variation between the actual schemes that boats appeared with even though they were using the same measure, simply due to the different ways the crews doing the painting interpreted the guidelines for camoflaging the boat. This scheme appears from around June 1944. Again, as above, different boats received the measure at different times etc.


4. Measure 32/9SSB. This is essentially the same as 32/3SSB but it used a darker grey.


All hull numbers, pennant numbers and boat names were painted out during wartime in order not to aid enemy intelligence attempts to id units.

A good website for US navy camoflage is this one:

http://www.shipcamouflage.com/index.htm

It has infomation on all USN camoflage measures used during the war and also has a record of what ships used which measures and when, including US subs. So you can fairly accurately apply the correct skin for your boat. Of course some boats were sunk before they could receive all of the measures and MS10 and MS32/9SSB are not recreated anywhere at the moment AFAIK, so in that case you will just have to improvise!

[Doolittle81]

Thanks for the History.

So, basically, as a default coloring, it would be best to have 'Measure 9' Black subs until mid-44, then go the the 'Measure 32' paint scheme for the rest of the war.

Am I correct in assuming that the FOOBAR skins identified as 'weathered' and 'heavily weathered' would be Measure 32 skins?

[FooFighters]

Originally Posted by Doolittle81

Thanks for the History.

So, basically, as a default coloring, it would be best to have 'Measure 9' Black subs until mid-44, then go the the 'Measure 32' paint scheme for the rest of the war.

Am I correct in assuming that the FOOBAR skins identified as 'weathered' and 'heavily weathered' would be Measure 32 skins?

Thats correct

[Doolittle81]

This is probably a stupid question, but what is the difference between the Game default black-skinned subs and FOOBAR's black-skinned subs?

[FooFighters]

Originally Posted by Doolittle81

This is probably a stupid question, but what is the difference between the Game default black-skinned subs and FOOBAR's black-skinned subs?

There are (almost) no stupid questions :rotfl:

My skins are hi-res (2048x2048 instead of 1024x1024) and a lot less rusty then the originals.

[captiandon]

What program do you use to convert the textures to and from? I wanted to try my hand at some skinning of my own

[FooFighters]

Originally Posted by captiandon

What program do you use to convert the textures to and from? I wanted to try my hand at some skinning of my own

DXTbmp and paintshop pro

[ReallyDedPoet]

They look good in standard resolution too FF


RDP

[mrbeast]

Another aspect is that FOO's skins are not covered in rivets. Most US subs had welded hulls. IIRC only a couple of the early fleet boats were rivetted.

[Capt Jack Harkness]

Say, is there a way to get glass (preferably reflect mapped) onto the portholes on the early conn towers? I always thought it was strange the game just has open holes when they were actually proper windows (as seen in this pic of Thresher)...

[FooFighters]

Originally Posted by Capt Jack Harkness

Say, is there a way to get glass (preferably reflect mapped) onto the portholes on the early conn towers? I always thought it was strange the game just has open holes when they were actually proper windows (as seen in this pic of Thresher)...

Good question.. but I don't know the answer.
I am a painter and this has to be modded in some way..

Any else know if this is possible ?

[THE_MASK]

I was just looking thru the SH3 mod threads and it looks like anything and everything is possible LOL .

[mrbeast]

IIRC vessels usually had the glass removed from windows or had it painted over during wartime to prevent the reflection of sunlight giving away their position. The measure 9 camoflage instructions for submarines (thats the all black scheme) instructed that:

'Glass windows shall be covered or removed, especially during the day in sunny weather, and at night when anticipating searchlight discovery. Insofar as conditions permit, similar precautions shall be taken on airport lenses.'

The picture of USS Thresher shows her in her pre-war condition; she has her pennant numbers visible on the conning tower and hull. During wartime she (along with all other subs) had them painted out so as not to aid the enemy in identifying the boat.

Check out this website has a lot of info about WWII naval camo, mainly USN:

http://www.shipcamouflage.com/measure_9.htm

[DeepIron]

mrbeast is absolutely correct. Glass in the conning towers of Fleet boats was removed or otherwise "obstructed", mostly removed. It simply was too weak to withstand both deep dives and imploding from DC attacks...

A bit of trivia: The rationale for having glass in the first place was simple, US Fleet boats were not seen as front line combatants initially. Mostly the USN saw them in support roles and intelligence. Amongst the other things that were changed were "cut down" sheer waters and removal of extra metal.