Silent Hunter IV U-Boat Mission add-on - Page 2

tater · 10-30-07, 03:19 PM

Yeah, it is sadly very missing.

The principal difference between the PTO and ATO (from a dynamism standpoint) is that there were many more large warships attacked by submarines. Also, unlike the USN, the IJN was relatively small. The USN in a sub sim (as a target navy) is effectively unlimited. Even a fantasy "what-if" campaign for u-boats would never result in them sinking ships faster than the US could make them—even warships. As such, the notion of finite numbers of ships doesn't matter.

Sink a jeep carrier? Big deal, the USN built 139 more, and would have replaced the one you sank instead of cancelling 141+ anyway. The IJN was incapable of making any more ships than they did. Every loss was dearly felt.

Dunno, it kills immersion for me to see too many Yamatos, etc.

tater

Gunner · 10-30-07, 03:25 PM

Looks like source came from Audibleknight on the ubisoft forum

rrmelend · 10-30-07, 03:26 PM

I agree with what Tater said earlier; if it adds something significant to gameplay sure but I have no desire to play u-boats. I never bought SH2 or SH3 for that reason. I'm a USN Pacific Theater nut.

bigboywooly · 10-30-07, 03:32 PM

I will have to see if I can find the original text but was pitched something along the lines of you can make a difference

If you take out all the IJN heavies they wont reappear

To a certain extent you are right in ship production but the US wasnt the only ones involved in either TO
Sink all the RN carriers and they respawn anyway
There was no way the RN were going to whack out a few more
Same with BBs
The RN only built one during the war and comissioned too late to be of any use

Still I suppose either way is a matter of choice
Sink a shedload of DDs early on so late war is simple or
Sink them and they appear again

Meh

mrbeast · 10-30-07, 03:36 PM

I think the devs must have left it out because although making a roster with a finite number of units of a certain class is 'doable' it would take a lot of work to list all the Marus and decide which ship models should represent them.

All the info is fairly easy to access its just a case of an extended research project to complile it all.

tater · 10-30-07, 03:40 PM

As long as the campaign is done so that you don't sink huge numbers of ships (in the PTO, anyway) it's not too bad. Unless you keep track and know that there were only X Mutsuki DDs you are unlikely to think you've sunk all of them.

The "zebra" units (rare and interesting compared to "horses"

) are another story. 2 Yamatos, zero possibility of there ever being more. If you sink one, you should never see 2 together, much less sink 2.

Makes doing a really compulsive campaign hard. It would also be nice if you could make a unit within a group disappear. Right now you make a Battle of Midway for the campaign, and the only way to sink the flattops is to put enough bombers around that they always all sink. Course you'll likely sink everything else, as well.

(actually, I just got an idea that might work... damn complex, though.)

bigboywooly · 10-30-07, 03:46 PM

Well I have not really looked in the SH4 campaign files so bow to your superior knowledge there

I know in SH3 if you sink any units from a convoy or TF when leave rendering range - around 35-50km - then re acquire contact with the same group all sunk units are now back

And if a ship is in a group from the start it stays till the end
No way of getting one to say leave unless it runs alongside the original group as a seperate
Not something you can do for RND groups as too many variables

mrbeast · 10-30-07, 03:49 PM

Actually this might be more complicated than it at first seems. What would happen say of you miraculously managed to sink all 4 of the IJN Midway carriers before Midway? Would Midway still happen?

tater · 10-30-07, 04:36 PM

The battle really never happens. if you want it to happen, you need to have planes spawn, then fly to their targets. if you sank all 4 CVs en route, and the scripted battle had US planes coming to point X to bomb, they'd show up at point X and bomb whatever was there (BBs, guard DDs, etc).

It would be hard to sink all 4 in an accurate midway since they were all 8km away from each other. That's a long way submerged, or even on the surface if the CVs are fast (and during the day they'd be making flank speed most of the time if they were near enough to do air ops).

tater

mookiemookie · 10-30-07, 04:43 PM

As stated before, there were only 2 Type XVIII's made, and neither of them saw any combat...in fact they were dismantled in the shipyard.

And "battle groups" in the Indian Ocean? What Kriegsmarine assets were in the Indian Ocean aside from the U-boats?

As a hardcore realism nut, I'm not sure about this...

tater · 10-30-07, 04:46 PM

The only possible ships might be aux cruisers operating under other flags, right? It's not like the KM was free to operate real ships in blue water, lol.

clayman · 10-30-07, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I just want the 1.4 patch before spring 2008

Here, here!

bigboywooly · 10-30-07, 05:12 PM

The only Aux cruiser in the IO ( Michel ) was sunk Oct 17 1943
Which is how the Japanese had Arados
From that ship

The only others were supply ships
Charlotte Scheimann and Brake IIRC
Both sunk

So no KM surface ships to call upon

tater · 10-30-07, 05:48 PM

Maybe they are borrowing from Il-2 and the u-boats will call the Graf Zepplin and a deck full of Lerche flying saucers

tater

bigboywooly · 10-30-07, 05:50 PM

Wouldnt surprise me from Ubi

10-30-07, 03:25 PM	#17
Gunner Navy Dude Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 177 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Looks like source came from Audibleknight on the ubisoft forum __________________

10-30-07, 03:32 PM	#19
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	I will have to see if I can find the original text but was pitched something along the lines of you can make a difference If you take out all the IJN heavies they wont reappear To a certain extent you are right in ship production but the US wasnt the only ones involved in either TO Sink all the RN carriers and they respawn anyway There was no way the RN were going to whack out a few more Same with BBs The RN only built one during the war and comissioned too late to be of any use Still I suppose either way is a matter of choice Sink a shedload of DDs early on so late war is simple or Sink them and they appear again Meh __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

10-30-07, 03:36 PM	#20
mrbeast Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bolton, UK Posts: 1,236 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I think the devs must have left it out because although making a roster with a finite number of units of a certain class is 'doable' it would take a lot of work to list all the Marus and decide which ship models should represent them. All the info is fairly easy to access its just a case of an extended research project to complile it all. __________________

10-30-07, 03:46 PM	#22
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Well I have not really looked in the SH4 campaign files so bow to your superior knowledge there I know in SH3 if you sink any units from a convoy or TF when leave rendering range - around 35-50km - then re acquire contact with the same group all sunk units are now back And if a ship is in a group from the start it stays till the end No way of getting one to say leave unless it runs alongside the original group as a seperate Not something you can do for RND groups as too many variables __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

10-30-07, 03:49 PM	#23
mrbeast Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bolton, UK Posts: 1,236 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Actually this might be more complicated than it at first seems. What would happen say of you miraculously managed to sink all 4 of the IJN Midway carriers before Midway? Would Midway still happen? __________________

10-30-07, 03:19 PM	#16
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Yeah, it is sadly very missing. The principal difference between the PTO and ATO (from a dynamism standpoint) is that there were many more large warships attacked by submarines. Also, unlike the USN, the IJN was relatively small. The USN in a sub sim (as a target navy) is effectively unlimited. Even a fantasy "what-if" campaign for u-boats would never result in them sinking ships faster than the US could make them—even warships. As such, the notion of finite numbers of ships doesn't matter. Sink a jeep carrier? Big deal, the USN built 139 more, and would have replaced the one you sank instead of cancelling 141+ anyway. The IJN was incapable of making any more ships than they did. Every loss was dearly felt. Dunno, it kills immersion for me to see too many Yamatos, etc. tater

10-30-07, 03:26 PM	#18
rrmelend Medic Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 162 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	I agree with what Tater said earlier; if it adds something significant to gameplay sure but I have no desire to play u-boats. I never bought SH2 or SH3 for that reason. I'm a USN Pacific Theater nut.

10-30-07, 03:40 PM	#21
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	As long as the campaign is done so that you don't sink huge numbers of ships (in the PTO, anyway) it's not too bad. Unless you keep track and know that there were only X Mutsuki DDs you are unlikely to think you've sunk all of them. The "zebra" units (rare and interesting compared to "horses" ) are another story. 2 Yamatos, zero possibility of there ever being more. If you sink one, you should never see 2 together, much less sink 2. Makes doing a really compulsive campaign hard. It would also be nice if you could make a unit within a group disappear. Right now you make a Battle of Midway for the campaign, and the only way to sink the flattops is to put enough bombers around that they always all sink. Course you'll likely sink everything else, as well. (actually, I just got an idea that might work... damn complex, though.)

10-30-07, 04:36 PM	#24
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	The battle really never happens. if you want it to happen, you need to have planes spawn, then fly to their targets. if you sank all 4 CVs en route, and the scripted battle had US planes coming to point X to bomb, they'd show up at point X and bomb whatever was there (BBs, guard DDs, etc). It would be hard to sink all 4 in an accurate midway since they were all 8km away from each other. That's a long way submerged, or even on the surface if the CVs are fast (and during the day they'd be making flank speed most of the time if they were near enough to do air ops). tater

10-30-07, 04:43 PM	#25
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	As stated before, there were only 2 Type XVIII's made, and neither of them saw any combat...in fact they were dismantled in the shipyard. And "battle groups" in the Indian Ocean? What Kriegsmarine assets were in the Indian Ocean aside from the U-boats? As a hardcore realism nut, I'm not sure about this... __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

10-30-07, 04:46 PM	#26
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	The only possible ships might be aux cruisers operating under other flags, right? It's not like the KM was free to operate real ships in blue water, lol.

10-30-07, 05:12 PM	#28
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	The only Aux cruiser in the IO ( Michel ) was sunk Oct 17 1943 Which is how the Japanese had Arados From that ship The only others were supply ships Charlotte Scheimann and Brake IIRC Both sunk So no KM surface ships to call upon __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

10-30-07, 05:48 PM	#29
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Maybe they are borrowing from Il-2 and the u-boats will call the Graf Zepplin and a deck full of Lerche flying saucers tater

10-30-07, 05:50 PM	#30
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Wouldnt surprise me from Ubi __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41