Help at sea

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by SteminDemon13

No. There are generators that are coupled to an electric motor.

Sure but what drove the generator ?

The batteries in these subs are indeed massive. Just one battery was in the order of 4 to 8 times the size of the one in your car and there were 'banks' of these batteries. I dont know the exact number but probably in the order of 12 to 20 batteries in each of two banks (fore and aft). Depending on how they were wired (series or parallel) established the voltage available. The quantity and size of the batteries determined there capacity (ampere hours).

The amount of potential energy in the bank of batteries is really quite amazing. If it could all be released in an instant the explosion would be astonishing most likely destroying the submarine. Fortunatly its pretty hard to accomplish that and a slow release of this energy is what is desired. Once that energy is depleted there is no way to get it back without a rather substantial generator.

A little put put generator would not be able to produce the voltage/current required to charge the batterys in any sort of reasonable time. At the very least the generator has to be able to provide the voltage (actually a few volts above the batteires voltage) which I believe to be 300V DC. At least that voltage is common amongst diesel/electric systems of that era. Not a common output of your typical utility generator.

The 'return to base' button was removed by the developers as a nod towards realisim. Unfortunatly it often leads to a carrier in limbo.

I too have been crying for independant motor control since SH2 also the ability to choose which energy source to drive the sub from on the surface should be available as well. After all they did this in real life. How about nodding towards that realisim ?

[seafarer]

http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/ele...p5.htm#fig5-04

Typical fleet boat had 2 batteries, of 126 cells apiece, and each cell was on the order of 1650lbs (so about 25-26x or more times the weight of a typical car battery).

Fleet boat electrical manual - http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/elect/index.htm

Fleet boats also had an auxiliary engine, "GM 8-268 is an 8-cylinder, in-line, 2-cycle, air started engine rated at 300 kw generator output at 1200 rpm." (quating from the above linked manuals). These were located below the main diesel engines (ie. under the gratings).

see the lower engine flats on the USS Pampanito - http://www.maritime.org/tour/taerlowvr.htm

[SteamWake]

Double post... oops

[SteamWake]

[quote=SteamWake]

Originally Posted by seafarer

http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/ele...p5.htm#fig5-04

Typical fleet boat had 2 batteries, of 126 cells apiece, and each cell was on the order of 1650lbs (so about 25-26x or more times the weight of a typical car battery).

Fleet boat electrical manual - http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/elect/index.htm

Well I knew i was being conservative but that 1,650lbs is for all 126 cells I believe.

I cant find in there what voltage or Ah these banks were capable of producing. Im curious now. Some quick math points to around 200 volts

Do modern fleet boats still use lead acid cells ? Also do nukes carry storage batteries for in the case of a reactor shut down

[seafarer]

The manual clearly is referring to an individual cell at 1650lbs. The full weight of both batteries, without connectors at such, was about 208 tons. A u-boat's batteries would also make up as much as 16% of total surface displaced weight.

P.S. I think each 126-cell battery in a Gato or Balao class was rated to deliver something like 5,300 Amp/Hrs

P.P.S. Exide battery is still making submarine batteries, and supposedly makes backup batteries for US nukes - I believe they are still made up of lead/acid cells.

[SteminDemon13]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

So the electric motor uses power from the dead batteries to run the generator to recharge the dead batteries?

Sorry, I don't believe in perpetual motion.

Sailor Steve, not on subs, but on a US Navy Surface Ship thank can generate a tremendous ammount of electricity with its Electrical plant setup.

[seafarer]

Originally Posted by SteminDemon13

Sailor Steve, not on subs, but on a US Navy Surface Ship thank can generate a tremendous ammount of electricity with its Electrical plant setup.

Still confused by what you mean. So, an electrical motor can, in priniciple, turn a generator to produce electrical energy. But the motor has to get it's electrical energy from somewhere else in the first place, so what's producing that?

Every ship I've ever been on generated it's electrical power either by alternators run by power takeoffs of some kind from the main engines, or from a standalone diesel or gas-turbine generator combination (and I've toured warships that would have used steam to spin their genetators, just never sailed on a steam powered ship).

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by SteminDemon13

Sailor Steve, not on subs, but on a US Navy Surface Ship thank can generate a tremendous ammount of electricity with its Electrical plant setup.

While it may be very well possible to charge a subs batteries from a ships energy plant surely it would be easier to transfer some fuel. In either case were still back to a 'rescue at sea' which is not modeled in the game.

[Bulkhead]

I also mentioned the "batteries & diesel" thread. i agree thats a realism issue more than to call a tug to come and get you.

The reason for this question is that my diesel engine is not running and am afraid the hull is not gonna hold if i dive, and i amn about 9-10 hours away from a sub tender at slow speed.

[seafarer]

Originally Posted by Bulkhead

I also mentioned the "batteries & diesel" thread. i agree thats a realism issue more than to call a tug to come and get you.

The reason for this question is that my diesel engine is not running and am afraid the hull is not gonna hold if i dive, and i amn about 9-10 hours away from a sub tender at slow speed.

All I can suggest is to submerge as little as possible (in increments, clicking on the shallow depth guage) until you can get the motors turning. If you've not gone into a death dive by then, head over to the tender at 2 knots.

[Bulkhead]

Yes, i know. Butt i miss the possibilities to do it on the surface....

[Bulkhead]

Oh my, did I say "butt"....i ment "but" of course

[kikn79]

Two options to get home:

In the event that all of your main diesels were out, you could use the "dinky." The auxilary diesel engine located below the after engine room. (As already mentioned by some)

OR, you could emulate the R-14 and fashon a sail out of blankets and matresses.

Searching for the the sea-going tug Conestoga in May 1921, the R-14 ran out of fuel southeast of Hawaii. Sails were made by sewing blankets and mattress covers together forming sails. The submarine arrived in Hilo, Hawaii on May 15 after 5 days under sail.

Chuck

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by kikn79

Two options to get home:

In the event that all of your main diesels were out, you could use the "dinky." The auxilary diesel engine located below the after engine room. (As already mentioned by some)

OR, you could emulate the R-14 and fashon a sail out of blankets and matresses.

Chuck

Thats just freakin awsome !

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by SteminDemon13

Sailor Steve, not on subs, but on a US Navy Surface Ship thank can generate a tremendous ammount of electricity with its Electrical plant setup.

Which is powered by? A battery? I think you'll find it can't generate any electricity at all unless the electrical generator is being powered by the steam turbines.

I agree with Seafarer on the weight. The manual says:

The weight of one cell ready for service is approximately 1650 pounds without intercell connectors or vent ducts.