Pope John Paul II Returns

[kranz]

Hi
I think that many-it depends on people's attitude to beliving in God etc.I'm from poland so I understand why many people believe that they have seen pope in those flames.They are trying to find ANY reason to accelareate the process of making John Paul II a saint.But I don't identify with them and I don't see anything funny and amusing in showing a rubber guy from Michelin in this topic-I know that jews in auschwitz were only beliving that they would surely die-so "The Avon Lady" from Jerusalem-watch your language while making fun of sth.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by kranz

Hi
I think that many-it depends on people's attitude to beliving in God etc.I'm from poland so I understand why many people believe that they have seen pope in those flames.They are trying to find ANY reason to accelareate the process of making John Paul II a saint.But I don't identify with them and I don't see anything funny and amusing in showing a rubber guy from Michelin in this topic-I know that jews in auschwitz were only beliving that they would surely die-so "The Avon Lady" from Jerusalem-watch your language while making fun of sth.

This has nothing to do with challenging a religion or its figures.

[Penelope_Grey]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

This has nothing to do with challenging a religion or its figures.

Then what was it to do with? Cause if it is for giggles, its not funny.

I have a Catholic background within my family, and even though I'm not a strict believer in the faiths, I find your comparison of what could be the Pope rather insulting, Catholics believe the pope to be a representative of God here on Earth. That is serious business, and this is people's beliefs you are taking the mick out of don't you appreciate?

You were quick to pounce on Kranz when he mentioned Jews though.

Originally Posted by Zayphod

It's fire - sure it wasn't the devil waving, getting ready for the END of TIMES?

Why would the devil wave to people and try to socialise? Doesn't really fit his MO...

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

Then what was it to do with?

The shape of the flame.

Cause if it is for giggles, its not funny.

Then don't laugh.

I have a Catholic background within my family, and even though I'm not a strict believer in the faiths, I find your comparison of what could be the Pope rather insulting,

Then be insulted, though that was not my intention.

Why are you responding only to me? Why don't you respond to STEED, who said "another wacky vision story"? Or to Skybird who called the level of credulity "scary"? Or to Zayphod's and Bookworm's sarcastic post?

I have zero Catholic background within my family and 100% Jewish background. If the flame looked more like Moses with the 10 commandments, I would dismiss it just the same.

Catholics believe the pope to be a representative of God here on Earth. That is serious business, and this is people's beliefs you are taking the mick out of don't you appreciate?

Does the Pope command that you must believe that this flame shape in the photo is the Pope? Do you really want to start googling for fire/flame/smoke images caught on camera that represent human figures? Did I even present an argument that the Pope is not what Catholics believe him to be? If this flame is nothing more than a coincidental shape, does it in any way prove or disprove any Catholic understandings of the Pope?

You were quick to pounce on Kranz when he mentioned Jews though.

I never "pounced" on Kranz. On the contrary, I stated my post has nothing to do with disputing anyone's religion. And my second post asked what he meant, which Skybird answered. So where did i "pounce", deary? Read carefully before going into a fit of fervent hyperventilation.

Try to shut the Jews up elsewhere folks. It won't work here. Too bad.

[STEED]

Ouch

I would like to say from time to time celebs turn up as well or world leaders and as I have already said it's all tosh, if anyone takes it as word well you need to have a sit down and have a long think. As for the religious ones that pop up my argument stands, come on it's a joke dismiss it and move on. I am amazed how many people believe this just like the Loch Ness Monster and so on.

Come on folks chill out.

PS: That's a request.

[kiwi_2005]

Originally Posted by STEED

Ouch

I am amazed how many people believe this just like the Loch Ness Monster and so on.

Come on folks chill out.

PS: That's a request.

The Loch Ness aint real?

[STEED]

Click my Tiswas link and chill out for a minute. :rotfl:

[The Avon Lady]

Pareidolia.

Yeh. Dats de woyd!

[kranz]

Skybird-my statement had a meaning-probably you didn't want to understand it-on the contrary to your's my statement wasn't based on Wikipedia.I wrote several essays etc concerning this matter based on books(so no wikipedia).I agree-not all jews shoed this kind of attitude(e.g the sonderkomando rebel)but most of them.Why I wrote it? Because I wanted to show The Avon Lady that insulting someone's beliefs may result in a counterstrike aimed at her nation and religion.As I said before I don't believe that the Pope could be seen but so I wasn't insulted but I had to show that so called "giggles" in this kind of case are at the lowest level.Once again for Skybird-this Frankl is "a great example".Indeed.I'm curious why you haven't mentioned David Irving-he was also writting about Holocaust.But-choising a jew as a authority was really funny.Again The Avon Lady-
"Try to shut the Jews up elsewhere folks. It won't work here. Too bad." Do you think that jews are so important and everybody wants to shut them up?Are you joking?Probably you believe in some international treason or sth like this.Your intention-when showing this rubber guy- was clear and please don't try to cheat us.

[Skybird]

Kranz,

I try to write loud and clear so that you can hear me up there where you are:

the wikipedia entry was for an easy overview on the man, assuming that many people, including you, would not know who he was. Probabaly no other psychotherapist ever has insisted on "meaning" and "sense" being two most vital essentials to ensure man's psychologcal health and strengthen his willingness to live, like Frankl did. And since you refer to the Holocaust and said all Jews there did know that they would have to die - this simply illustrates that you do not have much insight into the theme. Becasue what we know from witness reports - and Frankl'S work - is this: those who were unable to find their place in a belief or conviction that it all has a meaning beyond the imminent situation, and that they would survive, earlier became lethally desperate and physically weak, and sick, and died much faster and earlier than those who were able to hold convictions that gave them perspective beyond the horror they were caught in: and of these, a significantly higher ammount of people survived.

I have been a clinical psychologist once, and studied Frankl's therapy theory (called logotherapy) as well as some others during my university time, that's why I know some of his writings and his two major works. Not by wikipedia, which was not present at that time, but by having worked my way through the books from A to Z.

And in general I must say that again you sound very much confused, mildly put - others may have even much harsher descriptions on their mind.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by kranz

Skybird-my statement had a meaning-probably you didn't want to understand it-on the contrary to your's my statement wasn't based on Wikipedia.I wrote several essays etc concerning this matter based on books(so no wikipedia).I agree-not all jews shoed this kind of attitude(e.g the sonderkomando rebel)but most of them.Why I wrote it? Because I wanted to show The Avon Lady that insulting someone's beliefs may result in a counterstrike aimed at her nation and religion.As I said before I don't believe that the Pope could be seen but so I wasn't insulted but I had to show that so called "giggles" in this kind of case are at the lowest level.Once again for Skybird-this Frankl is "a great example".Indeed.I'm curious why you haven't mentioned David Irving-he was also writting about Holocaust.But-choising a jew as a authority was really funny.Again The Avon Lady-
"Try to shut the Jews up elsewhere folks. It won't work here. Too bad." Do you think that jews are so important and everybody wants to shut them up?Are you joking?Probably you believe in some international treason or sth like this.Your intention-when showing this rubber guy- was clear and please don't try to cheat us.

There are many deranged ultra catholics in Poland.:p

[Penelope_Grey]

EDIT: Previous contents removed due to the sensible points raised below. RE: nastiness

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by kranz

I know that jews in auschwitz were only beliving that they would surely die

Care to explain this comment and its relevance to the topic at hand?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by kranz

I know that jews in auschwitz were only beliving that they would surely die

Maybe you want to read a bit of Viktor Frankl, Kranz. Just to learn how totally wrong you are in that statement - as far as that statement has any meaning, that is.

from wikipedia:
"Viktor Emil Frankl, M.D., Ph.D., (March 26, 1905 - September 2, 1997) was an Austrian neurologist and psychiatrist as well as a Holocaust survivor. Frankl was the founder of logotherapy and Existential Analysis, the "Third Viennese School" of psychotherapy. His book Man's Search for Meaning (first published in 1946) chronicles his experiences as a concentration camp inmate and describes his psychotherapeutic method of finding meaning in all forms of existence, even the most sordid ones, and thus a reason to continue living. He was one of the key figures in existential therapy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Frankl

[The Avon Lady]

I just quoted Frankl to someone in an email the other day, about extremism.