Stay on the surface

Ping Panther · 10-10-07, 01:26 PM

Welcome aboard joho,

British escorts maneuver you mentioned was often known as a "Half Raspberry".

Capt. Shark Bait · 10-10-07, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ping Panther

Welcome aboard joho,

British escorts maneuver you mentioned was often known as a "Half Raspberry".

so, this would be a full raspberry?:p

joegrundman · 10-10-07, 08:57 PM

never dive? So what did he propose to do instead?

Frostyvegi · 10-10-07, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joegrundman

never dive? So what did he propose to do instead?

Pretend to be a merchantman, perhaps? Or maybe pretend to be defecting.. :P

Kpt. Lehmann · 10-10-07, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joegrundman

never dive? So what did he propose to do instead?

Kretchmer would use low light (typical attack times for U-boats) and would outrun destroyers on the surface... With your bow or stern pointed at the enemy, it is more difficult for you to be seen. (This is called "low aspect ratio.")

The same is true in reverse. It is harder for your crew to spot vessels head on, or from behind... again low aspect ratio. (Using active sonar or radar another term used interchangeably/ in lieu of aspect ratio is "cross-section.")

Kretchmer was able to get away on the surface because he was good at estimating the fringes of detection. By the time DD's could charge after him with their greater surface speed... Kretchmer was too far away to warrant further chase and the escorts would have to return to the convoy due to the threat of other U-boats in the area... sometimes real and sometimes perceived.

Kretchmer was also known for getting inside convoys where escorts couldn't... or wouldn't think of looking for him... and taking advantage of the risk of collision at night.

Not very long ago there was a big thread/debate on whether or not surface attacks were possible at night in GWX. Penelope_Grey and some others were quite successful at it... though it was quite difficult... and you must remain very aware of your surroundings.

Once an attack is successful... and the convoy goes "full active" firing off starshells, using searchlights, going evasive, and escorts performing the Raspberry maneuver... I do suggest that you find a way to be elsewhere as soon as possible.

Remember... Hit and run!

If you try to stay and fight... nature will take its course.

joegrundman · 10-10-07, 11:38 PM

For sure i also do surface night attacks on convoys, it's a great thrill and it's nice to be able to run to safety on the surfaace at 14 knts instead of underwater at 2 knts and be ready for a second attack at dawn.

But IF I'm detected and i have a destroyer running at me I have always assumed it's better to dive. PErhaps I should try to outrun them

Kpt. Lehmann · 10-11-07, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joegrundman

For sure i also do surface night attacks on convoys, it's a great thrill and it's nice to be able to run to safety on the surfaace at 14 knts instead of underwater at 2 knts and be ready for a second attack at dawn.

But IF I'm detected and i have a destroyer running at me I have always assumed it's better to dive. PErhaps I should try to outrun them

In SH3/GWX, they will tend to catch you more often than not... HOWEVER, if you can grab some distance from the convoy... crashdive... and give the escort chasing you the slip before help arrives...

... They'll happily DC the heck out of the area you were last reported to be in... while you are creeping away on silent running deep below.

Other notes on surface attacks: (To anyone who cares to read)

-Fire salvoes of at least two to increase your chances of sinking your target.

-Do not try to STAY and fight it out on the surface. (When an attack is successful, they KNOW you are out there somewhere and will break their butts to find and kill you... because you are trying to choke the life out of England, remember?) If you get greedy... you will die.

-Do not underestimate the power of the merchant deck gun... and remember that as the war goes on, each ship mounts more and more of them. They aren't usually very accurate, (inertial and laser guided stability has been removed from every gun in GWX) however if you have my luck, a single unlucky shell hit will kill your entire watch crew and your favorite officer. Besides, accuracy doesn't matter when you've got guns coming our of your ears. Put enough rounds down-range and some will hit. Merchants can kill you.

-It is easier for the enemy to spot you big ole' wake than it is for them to spot your sub.

-The enemy "talks" to each other. (signal lamp and/or wireless) If they see you, they will tell all their buddies... including fleet and air assets many kilometers farther than you can see.

-When you have been spotted... for a few moments there is no point in stealth. Ring up flank speed if you haven't already, and crashdive... get deep... then go silent... and forget about sinking ships while you are busy surviving.

-Wait for the "Tail-end Charlie" and pick him off. In so doing you've already put a bit of distance between yourself and those who'd like to punch your ticket.

-Stop wasting eels on escorts... the tonnage... and your mission... is to sink the material being carried to England... that will be dropped on Germany.

-When you are in a tough spot and you let yourself get rattled... slow down and think.

Huskalar · 10-11-07, 03:26 AM

Tried surface attacks several times now, but was succesful only once. Looks like I have to practice some more.

flag4 · 01-31-08, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Quote:

Originally Posted by joegrundman

For sure i also do surface night attacks on convoys, it's a great thrill and it's nice to be able to run to safety on the surfaace at 14 knts instead of underwater at 2 knts and be ready for a second attack at dawn.

But IF I'm detected and i have a destroyer running at me I have always assumed it's better to dive. PErhaps I should try to outrun them

In SH3/GWX, they will tend to catch you more often than not... HOWEVER, if you can grab some distance from the convoy... crashdive... and give the escort chasing you the slip before help arrives...

... They'll happily DC the heck out of the area you were last reported to be in... while you are creeping away on silent running deep below.

Other notes on surface attacks: (To anyone who cares to read)

-Fire salvoes of at least two to increase your chances of sinking your target.

-Do not try to STAY and fight it out on the surface. (When an attack is successful, they KNOW you are out there somewhere and will break their butts to find and kill you... because you are trying to choke the life out of England, remember?) If you get greedy... you will die.

-Do not underestimate the power of the merchant deck gun... and remember that as the war goes on, each ship mounts more and more of them. They aren't usually very accurate, (inertial and laser guided stability has been removed from every gun in GWX) however if you have my luck, a single unlucky shell hit will kill your entire watch crew and your favorite officer. Besides, accuracy doesn't matter when you've got guns coming our of your ears. Put enough rounds down-range and some will hit. Merchants can kill you.

-It is easier for the enemy to spot you big ole' wake than it is for them to spot your sub.

-The enemy "talks" to each other. (signal lamp and/or wireless) If they see you, they will tell all their buddies... including fleet and air assets many kilometers farther than you can see.

-When you have been spotted... for a few moments there is no point in stealth. Ring up flank speed if you haven't already, and crashdive... get deep... then go silent... and forget about sinking ships while you are busy surviving.

-Wait for the "Tail-end Charlie" and pick him off. In so doing you've already put a bit of distance between yourself and those who'd like to punch your ticket.

-Stop wasting eels on escorts... the tonnage... and your mission... is to sink the material being carried to England... that will be dropped on Germany.

-When you are in a tough spot and you let yourself get rattled... slow down and think.

Wow!!

top advice Kpt'n

though it's the err, "slow down and think" bit that spills my soup...

10-10-07, 08:57 PM	#3
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	never dive? So what did he propose to do instead? __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill

10-10-07, 11:38 PM	#6
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	For sure i also do surface night attacks on convoys, it's a great thrill and it's nice to be able to run to safety on the surfaace at 14 knts instead of underwater at 2 knts and be ready for a second attack at dawn. But IF I'm detected and i have a destroyer running at me I have always assumed it's better to dive. PErhaps I should try to outrun them __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill

10-10-07, 01:26 PM	#1
Ping Panther Lieutenant Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: the armpit of the Mid-Atlantic / Quadrant CA42 Posts: 262 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Welcome aboard joho, British escorts maneuver you mentioned was often known as a *"Half Raspberry"*.

10-11-07, 03:26 AM	#8
Huskalar Ensign Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 221 Downloads: 176 Uploads: 0	Tried surface attacks several times now, but was succesful only once. Looks like I have to practice some more.