Sandy Berger

[Skybird]

Some of the worst scandals in american modern history - were staged by Republicans, noit Democrats, namely Watergate, and Irangate. compared to such issues, the sexual orientation of this or that guy, or some cheap property gains by use of insider kinowledge of a given person, are peanuts that often get blown up to sizes of a sky-hiding ballon. Europeans are constantly amused by the fact that many americans seem to think that democracts are the one holding the monopole to be involved in scandals, while the republican party describes itself as sin-free and innocent. How absurd.

Just to add some balance and an opposing counter-view to this thread's strong stand against democrats:

http://www.democraticunderground.com...3/29_lies.html

"If we understand the mechanism and motives of the group mind, it is now possible to control and regiment the masses according to our will without their knowing it." - Edward Bernays, a nephew of Sigmund Freud, America's No. 1 Publicist in the 1920's

When is a scandal not a scandal? When a scandal appears to be connected with a member of the Republican Party, it is not reported as a "scandal." Only when a member of the Democratic Party has involvement in anything that broaches the questionable grey area is something "determined" to be a "scandal." After an eight year-long investigation of William Jefferson and Hillary Clinton was concluded with "no evidence," it is still reported as a "scandal." That $70 million in taxpayer dollars and untold hours were devoted to finding something, anything, to throw at the Clintons has shown that there was nothing to throw. The media (and I mean the major corporate media) still consider it to be a "scandal." One that just won't go away. One that has to be lied about and drummed constantly into the psyche of the American public until something resonates. What is resonating are the words that have been repeated endlessly until almost everyone can recite them verbatim.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Just to add some balance and an opposing counter-view to this thread's strong stand against democrats:

http://www.democraticunderground.com...3/29_lies.html

Uhh, Skybird? That website is a partisan hack website, belonging to some of the most vile dredge of humanity in the USA. They are socialist kooks over there. Anything from that site can be largely discounted as pure trash.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

Uhh, Skybird? That website is a partisan hack website, belonging to some of the most vile dredge of humanity in the USA. They are socialist kooks over there. Anything from that site can be largely discounted as pure trash.

Eeeek!

It amuses me time and again to see how fanatic a reacton you can easily trigger by simply referring to somebody who dares to hold up a mirror in which republicans could see themselves.

Use google and enter "republican scandals". As minimum you get a hint that republicans are not less hesitent to get involved in scandals as democrats they love to poi8nt fingers at with determined stubborness.

I also say that I have the very strong impression the the real big bad stories delivering real substantial damage to America - see the republicans as the creators of such scandals. name a single democratic conspiracy against the Republicans that rival the meaning and importance of Nixon' Watergate. Show me one story since WWII that matches the callibre of Reagan's Irongate. show me single event since WWII where the republicans ever have become so very much the dedicated victim of a democratic intrigue, or where the american public so deliberately had been deceived, and the official foreign policy betrayed, or where administrative powers have been so decisevely beeing abused and laws cut back and/or evaded like under Bush. And I do not even start about the lies and manipulations and intimidations, threatenings and bullyings during the time of preparing the road to war with Iraq.

I currently read a wonderfully controversial book by Mearsheimer and Walt, "The Israel Lobby" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Isr...Foreign_Policy ) . the most remarkable thing about it is that the whole system they describe - immediately sprung to life and tried with almost hysteric intensity to bully the authors, to discredit them at all cost, no matter what, and gave living proof for their own existence by rejecting so blind hatefully that they do exist. Ridiculous. Marc Mazower, professor for history at the Columbia university is quoted to have said about the book: "What is striking is less the substance of their argument than the outraged reaction: to all intents and purposes, discussing the US-Israel special relationship still remains taboo in the US media mainstream. [...] Whatever one thinks of the merits of the piece itself, it would seem all but impossible to have a sensible public discussion in the US today about the country’s relationship with Israel." - the underlined last sentence could be said about the constant bashing of "democrat's scandals" and the total rejection that there are least as many scandals on republican's side (and much more dangerous and threatening ones) as well. Those sitting in the glass house, here obviously thow the biggest stones, and early, and often. That is the only reason why Clinton enjoying a blowjob could ever have become such an issue, whereas in principle that is a private issue between him, Lewinski, and Clinton's wife. Compared to that private issue, politicians and cardinals guilty of abusing children and being pedophiles is the far more significant and serious issue. but it never could rival the incredible scandal of clinton and Lewinski. Ha!

[DeepIron]

"People get the government they deserve."

It doesn't matter a wet slap what party did what, or to whom it was done, as it is all in the past. There have been political scandals since the days of the ancent Greeks and Romans... just check any good history books...

The problem is not the past, it's the present. In thread after thread, fourm after forum, people talk (complain, whine, snivel, opine, whatever) about what is now effectively, "history"...

The question is, what are we going to do about the present situation?

The short answer: nothing. The current US electoral sysem is flawed. The Electoral College system is outdated and should be overhauled. It sucks to see the popular vote go one way, and the results of the Electoral College go another...

There should be a much lower cap on what a candidate can raise, IMO. It becomes more of a focus on $$$ than issues.

The days of "responsible, citizen-oriented government" in America are gone. They died with Truman. Now Big Business, Special Interest Groups, $$$ and greed rule government in the US.


OMG! Post 179's avatar is, er, well, um.... disturbing! LOL! :rotfl::rotfl:

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

I don't want us to lose the war---which is pretty much a guarantee if the Democrats take the executive office,

That depends on what ones interpretation of winning is. I wouldn't call what we are doing there now winning. What do you think is going to happen when this 'surge' is over? No effective goverment in six years isn't winning. They still can't even trust the police yet after six years. Are you prepared to send one of your children over there? The way this is now we will still be there when my 2 1/2 year old granddaughter is military age. To me that is not winning. This is no fault of General Petraeus and you haven't heard him say winning yet and I would also point out that his plan at the get go called for 40,000 more troops permenatley. The 'surge' is only a temporary measure and that was I believe 20,000.

don't want to see new entitlements such as Hilary's "$5,000 for every new baby born" Mexican illegal alien giveaway program.

It's for every child born in the U.S. and I agree it's not a good idea.

I'm not too happy that the Chinese despots and Islamic terrorists seemingly want to se Democrats in power. Just why would that be???

I'm not sure what you mean by Chinese despots. Like it or not we are going to reap what we have sown. We are doing nothing in Afganistan and Iraq and wishing success isn't going to make it happen. We have the force to maybe accomplish one. Losing two is not better. Let the Iraqi's sort themselves out. They can't play middle eastern hardball with us trying to make them see western values.

[Hakahura]

Well here's one that'll upset a few of you Yanks, but...

Vote for Hillary when you get the chance.
You've never had a woman for President.
Here in the UK, our greatest leader (post WWII, possibly ever) was Mrs Thatcher.
What I would'nt give to have someone like her in charge again.

And lets not forget it's Queen Elizabeth who's really in charge.

Lets be honest most of us have a woman telling us what to do at home...
Let them run the country! Why not?

Originally Posted by Hakahura

Well here's one that'll upset a few of you Yanks, but...

Vote for Hillary when you get the chance.
You've never had a woman for President.
Here in the UK, our greatest leader (post WWII, possibly ever) was Mrs Thatcher.
What I would'nt give to have someone like her in charge again.

And lets not forget it's Queen Elizabeth who's really in charge.

Lets be honest most of us have a woman telling us what to do at home...
Let them run the country! Why not?

Would you vote for this woman?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by DeepIron

The question is, what are we going to do about the present situation?

The short answer: nothing. The current US electoral sysem is flawed. The Electoral College system is outdated and should be overhauled. It sucks to see the popular vote go one way, and the results of the Electoral College go another...

I keep trying to point out that this is nothing new, and it is not just 'current'. Clear back in 1824 Andrew Jackson won both the popular AND electoral votes, but not by a plurality. It then went to the House of Representatives, who elected John Quincy Adams to be president. It's easy to say it should be overhauled, but exactly what changes would you make?

There should be a much lower cap on what a candidate can raise, IMO. It becomes more of a focus on $$$ than issues.

The downside being that candidates with their own money would have an advantage. Limit what they can spend, maybe?

The days of "responsible, citizen-oriented government" in America are gone. They died with Truman. Now Big Business, Special Interest Groups, $$$ and greed rule government in the US.

Again, nothing new. Those things have always ruled; or at least the losing side has made those accusations.

[The WosMan]

I have no loyalty to either party anymore but I end up voting Republican because at the end of the day it is the lesser of two evils. I am what I would call a classic American or Classic Liberal....somebody that would be classified as a right-wing conservative in this day and age, but in reality this belief system is the true way we were meant to be and the way our founding fathers were. I believe in absolute respect for the Bill of Rights and accepting those rights at face value (our Constitution it isn't up for any interpretation, especially bringing in foreign judgement and laws into our constitution to make judical decisions), and a extreme hatred for progressives, socialist, or any BS word they make up to cover up the fact that their belief is communism. This garbage originated with Karl Marx and polluted this country 100 years ago and has continued to grow in influence. This system was adopted by Democrats.

Historically speaking, our first mistake was Prohibition. Then we really took a left turn with Roosevelts New Deal which did nothing but create more poverty and problems and made the Great Depression last all the way until WW2. The war ended the Great Depression, not the massive expansion of the Federal government into social programs. You would think we would have learned with that but then LBJ came along with the Great Society act.

The Great Society act did nothing but create a permanent poverty class to elect hack politicians to office with the promise of welfare (the new liberal Democrats..see before this Democrats were the party of the racists and the KKK, for reference look up Woodrow Wilson, Robert Byrd, Al Gore Sr, Hugo Black, etc). This welfare state has not only ruined the nation, it destroyed entire ethnic cultures. The poverty pimps of these movements still enslave the people they claim to want to help, flaming racism and solving none of the problems that still exist that should have been ended long ago.

National Health care is just one more step in the SP movement to create a legion of lazy, mind-numbed robot voters who will keep voting in these idiots as long as they rob my hard earned tax dollars and give it to somebody who doesn't want to work. Why work and contribute to society if you can get a free check from Uncle Sam. This is how these people keep their power. They go to school for this very purpose, if you go to school for government and public service first thing you learn is how to keep your job. Those who want to work, make a name for themselves, they work in the private sector. It is my belief that this nation will become the reality that is the book "Atlas Shrugged".

Also, if you folks want to talk about scandals, follow the money and how every single thing done by Democrats, Hillary, etc is all through the grace and power of one man, George Soros, and his Moveon.org.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by The WosMan

follow the money and how every single thing done by Democrats, Hillary, etc is all through the grace and power of one man, George Soros, and his Moveon.org.

The Religious Quest of George Soros.

[Tchocky]

I don't believe that a "Classic American" would subscribe to "extreme hatred" for a political/economic belief

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

"Classic American"

Is that a kind of hot dog or pickle? :hmm:

[Tchocky]

Here

Originally Posted by The WosMan

I am what I would call a classic American or Classic Liberal....somebody that would be classified as a right-wing conservative in this day and age, but in reality this belief system is the true way we were meant to be and the way our founding fathers were. I believe in absolute respect for the Bill of Rights and accepting those rights at face value (our Constitution it isn't up for any interpretation, especially bringing in foreign judgement and laws into our constitution to make judical decisions), and a extreme hatred for progressives, socialist, or any BS word they make up to cover up the fact that their belief is communism.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Here

I don't know if that particular aspect of WosMan's quote is part of being a "classic American" or not. In any case, there need not be a major conflict between belief is the US' initial founding principles and a strong disdain for anything veering far away from it.

EDIT: My text was missing several critical words. Corrected.

[Tchocky]

Yeah, it's not crucial. I was skim-reading and the words jumped out at me