GWX is turning me off to SHIII

[d@rk51d3]

Originally Posted by Pablo

FWIW I have observed ASW ships give a "false start" at fairly long range and zoom around as if they have a contact, only to settle back down into their normal routine several minutes later.

And doesn't that get the heart pounding.

[_Seth_]

Guys, this isnt North Korea. Everybody is entitled to say what they mean about the different mods out there, without beeing "blown off" because they dont follow the flow. My job isnt to take sides in this discussion; im here to see that everything runs according to Neal's rules & that discussions are being kept in a civil matter. But constructiv critisism is totally allowed.

[danlisa]

Ok, as no one has asked the obvious, I will.

Wilhelm, what mods do you have enabled?
Secondly, have you tried Rubini's Stay Alert mod? This increases your boat's sensor range.

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I would just like to remind everyone that all the escorts in GWX conduct expanded search runs when moving with a convoy. The front, side & rear escorts will all excelerate and peel off from the convoy route to conduct this search. Now, if when they do, they happen to cover your approach route, then you will be discovered. These search patterns must be observed before you make your attack approach.

Example - Last night, Oct 10th 1942 Op Drumbeat, I attacked 2 convoys. Weather was reduced visiblilty & 14m/s wind/waves. Each convoy had 6 escorts, front, rear & 2 on either flank. I recieved a radar warning at about 19km range, I tracked this for 10mins to get generalised heading & ran a parallel course, until I was infront of the convoy route. I submerged before visual range, perhaps 10-11km out. From there I ran at periscope depth at 2kts until I was inside the lead escorts course. Only then did I raise my scope. 2 Large Tankers, Large Merchant & a Liberty Cargo were sunk on that run. The escorts all reacted to my presence after the first torp impact, however, they all proceeded to where they thought I'd be, which they decided was 1.5-3km from my actual position. Not once did I have to take evasive action or infact leave periscope depth. This was partly due to the Americans having poor equipment but mainly due to the weather conditions/sea state.

Since the creation of GWX 1.0 through to 1.04, none of the testers have complained that the AI is too hard. (well, in fairness, the first time we tried 1.0, we all shat ourselves) Results are obtainble but you can't expect to return from every patrol.

My 2p.

[joegrundman]

Danlisa,

can i ask a question? I seem to vaguely recall reading something about escorts searching using active sonar, but you can't actually hear it unless you have been detected. Is that right? If so, why is it this way?

thx

joe

[danlisa]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

Danlisa,
can i ask a question? I seem to vaguely recall reading something about escorts searching using active sonar, but you can't actually hear it unless you have been detected. Is that right? If so, why is it this way?

If you mean within the constraints of SH3/GWX, I shall do my best to answer but may have to defer to someone who knows more.

Active Sonar - Active Sonar uses a sound transmission to locate underwater targets. In SH3/GWX this is depicted by the 'Ping' that you can hear. Now, although an escort maybe pinging, it does not mean they have actually found you, just that they are looking. It does not mean that they are aware of the presence of a UBoat either. Just that they have gone into 'search mode' (within the design of the game). The only indication that you get ingame when the enemy has found you with 'pings' is your excellent crew telling you "We are being pinged".

Passive Sonar - This method is effectively a hydrophone. It's always listening and always on. Escorts will use this method until they are triggered to enter 'search mode'. The mode will either be activated by your boat being discovered/too noisy or (IIRC) by code added to GWX, as laid out in their search routines when protecting a convoy.

Joe, I've done my best but it's not my area of knowledge really. I will pass this question on & hopefully someone more knowledgable about the game limitations will reply.

[Sardaukar67]

Well...I'm happy playing NYGM-mod, so it's not relevant to GWX. But, there are very few (if none) "elite" etc. enemy vessels in 1939-40 in NYGM. In GWX it might be different.
NYGM uses 16k visibility mode and I like it...since detecting a convoy 8k aways is too short distance for me to plan attacks. I like to take my time...:p

Being detected when 5-6k away in dark night and during choppy seas is not something that could happen easily. Maybe once or twice in early war, but they were rare exceptions. Kind of Das Boot.."I cannot believe they saw our periscope!"

[Captain Nemo]

It's interesting to read the differing views here on this subject. Personally, I have managed to get as close as 600 metres to a destroyer at night (no moon) without being detected. I manoeuvred past this escort to set up a perfect stern shot on a large cargo with my last torp. However, I must add the caveat that I was at decks awash at the time and I do not use the 16km mod. I was quite proud of this manoeuvre, the only disappointment being that the torp (my last) was a dud.

Nemo

[andylegate]

@Pablo

Hmmmmm....thinking back to most of my patrols where I've sat and waited quietly for a convoy, what you are saying makes sense!

Not every time do they close to right where I am, but sometimes they'll pull up short and drop back to 11 or 12 knots when they get within a 2 to 3 km radius of me.
Then again sometimes it is right on top of me, they drop speed and start pinging away! Ack!

I have gotten inside to the convoy many, many times, normally I get depth charged, but it's almost like the DD's are guessing. If I wait and tough it out, I'll normally get through without damage and the convoy will start to pass over head. The DD normally breaks off then.
That's when I surface and go "Surprise!" I'll have time to target one or two ships, and then down I go to hold my breath again. Those DD's sure do get POed when I do that! eheheheheheh!

The objection that I had is the same DD's spoting me from over 6km away, at night, in choppy seas, with no moon and I'm sitting DIW (Dead In the Water). I can't see them at all, until their guns light up! Then I can see them just fine as I start pounding on the "C" key to do a crash dive! Wondering if one of my watchstanders had lit up a cigarette (you CAN see that at night for miles and miles, I've seen it myself, freaky!).

Another approach I have to convoys is different (abiet suicidal). This only works if you are NOT doing manual targeting of course, so those die-hard realists won't like this approach .
If the weather is not too bad and my visability is not too limited, I'll get the escorts attention.
Yes I know, Andy must be insane (I think my crew thinks that!). I've found that most DD's go down with a single topedo (that is more realistic than most know. A DD's hull is actually very thin, carries a LOT of flamable fuel oil, and hundreds of HE rounds, sort of a floating bomb. My modern DDG's that I served on were even worse! Add 38 Terrier missiles and 8 Harpoon cruise missiles to the mix!).
I get submerged as soon as I know I have one of the escort's attention. I manuever until I'm bow on with her approaching. She'll start to S around when she get's within 2 km of me. I set my torp to 3 meters, Fast speed. I also hit Q and open the torpedo door. Then I wait.
When the Escort get's within 450 meters of me, I cut the torp loose. The torp almost never misses. As soon as the torp hits (or if it doesn't or duds out) I go to flank and either have my rudder to Hard to Port or Starbord depending on what the Escort is doing.
Did I mention that just before this I set one of my stern torps for the same thing?
That way if I missed, as I dodge out of the way, I straighten my rudder, slew the scope around aft and reaquire the escort, as soon as she's over 350 meters away, I'll cut loose the stern torpedo (if needed. If the Escort was hit, she's more than likely going down).
Once you got rid of her, I make my course towards the convoy at a nice speed of 4 knots. Yes, 4 knots. That's because the other 3 escorts are going to be on their way.
I use the same approach for each one of them. When I'm done, and if I was lucky, I've now got an unescorted Convoy, and I only used up 4 torps. Since I use a Type IX, that's good enough for me.
The neat thing is, you can turn the manual targeting back on if you want and go after the convoy that way. But you shouldn't use it with my above approach, else you'll be one dead u-boat commander!

That approach also has some rush for me too! If the torps a dud, well, I can feel my heart leap up into my throat! AAAAAHHHHG! Get Benard out of the torpedo room!

In anycase, I'm happy with GWX. If they've got the DD's harder, then they've got them harder. I could sit here and whine about it, but then if you think about it, I've got an unfair advantage over those poor DD's if I use automatic targeting, the F12 key to look above at what is happening, etc. They don't get those options!

[poor sailor]

I think and my opinion is that the GWX is perfect balanced mod.I have no problem with enemy spotting me on the surface. This is normal because they had a stronger binoculars and optics then U-boat, but when you submerge then you will feel your advantage in early years, for this example 1939, you will easy evade them, just run silent an go deep, they will attack you with depth charges but will be ineffective or not so effective, just try to have them on 0 or 180 degrees, and show your silhouette smaller as possible and that's it. Of course it's a little harder to escape a 2-3 destroyers, but in early years even that it's not a problem to me. This is great represented, as war go on, evading is much harder and that's a beauty I like in GWX. Just want to say, maybe some changing of attacking tactic is a good solution for all who think that the GWX is "too hard".

[Venatore]

Originally Posted by danlisa

These search patterns must be observed before you make your attack approach.

Oct 10th 1942 Op Drumbeat, I attacked 2 convoys. Weather was reduced visiblilty & 14m/s wind/waves. Each convoy had 6 escorts, front, rear & 2 on either flank. I recieved a radar warning at about 19km range, I tracked this for 10mins to get generalised heading & ran a parallel course, until I was infront of the convoy route. I submerged before visual range, perhaps 10-11km out. From there I ran at periscope depth at 2kts until I was inside the lead escorts course. Only then did I raise my scope. 2 Large Tankers, Large Merchant & a Liberty Cargo were sunk on that run. The escorts all reacted to my presence after the first torp impact, however, they all proceeded to where they thought I'd be, which they decided was 1.5-3km from my actual position. Not once did I have to take evasive action or infact leave periscope depth. This was partly due to the Americans having poor equipment but mainly due to the weather conditions/sea state.

And that gentlemen/ladies is how we will win this war.

[The Munster]

Originally Posted by d@rk51d3

And doesn't that get the heart pounding.

I've also come across this sort of behaviour from Flower Corvettes and yes, it does get the heart pounding !