Warming on hold.......cooling on the way?

[August]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

I.T.D.S..

It's got nothing to do with demographics AL. Too many of one group is as bad as too many of any other group.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by August

It's got nothing to do with demographics AL. Too many of one group is as bad as too many of any other group.

Well then, toodaloo!

[The Avon Lady]

How many people here heard/read/saw the story about the melting Northwest Passage on radio, TV or in the paper? Raise you hand!



Now, how many people heard anything about this in the mass media?

<insert sound of crickets here>

[Tchocky]

Well, the different nature of the Arctic ice fields makes for better news coverage, it's a bit more dramatic
Example - if the Arctic continues to melt at the same rate, it could be clear by 2030.

from wiki

Satellite data reported by NASA had shown evidence in 2002 that the total amount of ice in Antarctica had increased in the previous few decades[2]. This was significant because there is a large amount of ice in the area and some climate models predicting global warming also predict that some of the most severe warming should occur in Antarctica. On the other hand, a warming climate in the southern hemisphere would transport more moisture to Antarctica so the ice sheet would in fact grow and could somewhat counteract rising sea levels[1]. However, more recent satellite data suggests that the total amount of ice in Antarctica has begun decreasing in the past few years[3]. This melting ice could raise sea levels significantly if it continues.

I can't find the paper that is linked for this idea, it's cited everywhere but seems to have moved.

The glciers are moving faster, too. That could lead to further sheet extent.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

How many people here heard/read/saw the story about the melting Northwest Passage on radio, TV or in the paper? Raise you hand!



Now, how many people heard anything about this in the mass media?

<insert sound of crickets here>

Simple explanation, that is explained since several years, because since these several years it has been predicted - the growing global temperature causes the air over the southern pole to warm, too, that way the increased humidity in the atmosphere (from all that condensation due to warmer temperature) could reach deeper into the Antarctic, and rain and snow down there, due to the higher temperatures there. On the ground (the southen pole has landmasses), it freezes nevertheless. Over the next hundred years, the ice masses in the Antarctic are expected to increase by several thousand cubic miles and may even delay the raise of the sea level. Since the northpole does not consist of landmasses like the southern pole, you cannot see that effect in the north.

It's like with that argument that growing CO2 levels are good for increasing vegetation levels: it is a silly deception of the public by limiting the perspective to a timeframe that is too short to uncover the real longterm processes that are running. In the long run, the vegetation level sharply decreases. And with the Antartic increase of ice levels - the event does not mean there is no global warming - the very existence of the growing ice masses proves that global warming takes place. As I said, it is old news. Saw it on TV several years ago! I still was in Osnabrück, that makes it at least 8 years.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Captain Scribb

Reducing population growth wouldn't matter either, if we kept using fossil fuels.

Indeed. Mind your that the minority of mankind in the west over the last decades has burned and consummed more resspurces than the majority rest of global population.

Now there are China. India. etc.

[kurtz]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Indeed. Mind your that the minority of mankind in the west over the last decades has burned and consummed more resspurces than the majority rest of global population.

Now there are China. India. etc.

So perhaps we should go with the sierra club with this and stop 3rd world immigration to the west. I mean if a person in the western world uses 6 times the energy of a 3rd world person it would make no sense to bring people over here to increase there carbon footprint six fold.

Go figure Liberals

[Fish]

An other movie:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...84499045867811

[Letum]

Originally Posted by kurtz

So perhaps we should go with the sierra club with this and stop 3rd world immigration to the west. I mean if a person in the western world uses 6 times the energy of a 3rd world person it would make no sense to bring people over here to increase there carbon footprint six fold.

:hmm: And we could send you over to the 3rd world as well. I mean if a person in the
western world uses 6 times the energy of a 3rd world person it would make sense send
people over there.

[August]

Originally Posted by Letum

:hmm: And we could send you over to the 3rd world as well. I mean if a person in the
western world uses 6 times the energy of a 3rd world person it would make sense send
people over there.

I'd like to see you try it.

England tried something like that twice already and look how it worked out.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by August

I'd like to see you try it.

England tried something like that twice already and look how it worked out.

I was just taking the mick.

Tried what? How?

[gordonmull]

Well folks the Earth is warming, the sea is rising, the glaciers are melting. We have temperature records for the present and we have ice core records, tree rings, sea shells, seeds, spores and sediments for the past that all tell their paleoclimatic story. We have sea level monitoring stations which, albeit a new thing in a geological timescale, show a general rise since records did begin.

As to the weather? (I'm in Scotland) I've seen snow in June. A winter without a speck of the stuff on the mountains. Trees leafing in January. It does stuff like that. Weather is what you see today and climate is an average of weather over time. Don't worry about a mild winter because in a few years time you'll be freezing you b*lls off!

Interestingly enough, the Milankovitch cycles (which I won't go into in detail here but google them if you're interested) suggest that the Earth should in fact be going through a cooling phase just now - hence the ice age predictions in the in the latter part of last centuary.

Really I don't think that there is enough evidence to suggest that mankind is causing the effects we are seeing today. The IPPC's models aren't great and the system is too complex, eg a change in ocean currents can have a dramtic effect on climate but this system is poorly understood and seperate from the atmosphere where all the focus is.

Although the evidence for a human infuence is not complete it would be foolish to just dismiss it all. Better to be cautious and if it turns out wrong to say "Dam we were wrong" than to suffer the effects of a hostile environment.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Letum

I was just taking the mick.

Tried what? How?

Allow me to stab (no pun intended) a guess at America and Australia :hmm:

I believe this as much as global warming. Concensus? (I think I spelled it correctly this time, [Concensus]).

http://video.woodtv.com/inc/player.php?video_id=8974

[STEED]

Originally Posted by gordonmull

in a few years time you'll be freezing you b*lls off!

You may be but us folk in the south of England winter will be wall to wall.