Peace had come to Germany, but was rejected. How insulting!

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Smaragdadler

Just Dialectics at work...:
http://www.jungewelt.de/2007/09-06/061.php?print=1
http://de.altermedia.info/general/fk....html#comments

This is an English language forum. Could you please tell us what this is?

Meanwhile, in

Good luck, Europe!

And the pattern still remains
On the wall where darkness fell,
And it's fitting that it should,
For in darkness I must dwell.
Like the color of my skin,
Or the day that I grow old,
My life is made of patterns
That can scarcely be controlled.
- Patterns, Simon & Garfunkel

[Smaragdadler]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

This is an English language forum. Could you please tell us what this is?

These are two links to articles in German language.
One from the far political left, one from the far right - praising out beloved Führers for their occult knowledge and prophetical farsight in foreseeing the alien terror which threadens our beloved Volk - even oraceling the exact month beforehand!!!
But also the comerads, these redglowing party-swords of the workingclasses - are full admire-rational suprise in seeing how exact the dilactecis of the historical processs is fullfilling itself before the eyes of us all - in showing how right the goverment was in promoting enforcement of security matters for protections of the civil sector.
Not to forget the heroism of our brave police, who had (of course) the situation under controll, whole of the time (we expect nothing less). They were even able to exchange critical components for the explosives undetected during the observation - cute clever guys.

Edit - some more update (in German):
http://www.freace.de/artikel/200709/060907a.html
http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

In english. Though they left out the comment about sharia.

http://www.yle.fi/news/left/id69164.html

It turns out most of the party leadership are converts to islam and ex communists, what does that tell us? Communism, Nazism, Islam..

[Tchocky]

German security services are an equal opportunities arrester

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...dnap-Claim.php

[Skybird]

German media since yesterday reported that the successful counter terror operation that was just conducted would not have been possible without massively using information by American intel services that were won with those methods (considered as illegal by international standards and as inhumane) germany at the same has massively criticised in the past. So this is my most favourite schizophrenia in German foreign policy again: pointing finger at the US, but at the same time nevertheless enjoying the fruits from questionable harvesting.

The Germans arrested were converts, and on pictures they did not wear beards. It was reported that as a matter of fact they completely failed to fulfill any schemes by which the police tries to identitfy terror suspects. Police said that since some time he problem of converts has alarmed investigators more and more. Converts are under pressure to prove themselves as worthy and as truly Muslim, by their psychology they often feel urged to put any hate they feel on perceived wrongs in the world on a religious basis, namly the hate on the US and on Western values, and who converted though having been raised in Western tradition probably often is somebody who do not want an "Islam light", but the full hardcore package. Officially, 20.000 German convert per year, but unofficially it is estimated that there are AT LEAST 100.000 per year, possibly even up to 150.000. This is probably a two-contrast issue: these kinds of guys as described, on the other hand, are mostly women, who convert because they fell in love with a Muslim man and wanted to marry him. - Strange what love can make people do. I never would do that, at no cost. If the other cannot accept to live with me without me needing to join his ideology in order to accept me in return, then something is wrong from the beginning, I think. i wouldn't care nevertheless, if it wouldn't be so damn many per year.

However, the immenese number of converts has raised problems that have seriously alarmed the security services - for they cannot identify terror suspects by profiling anymore. Note that the same was said about the terrorists in London. they too did not compare with the profiles, but were fully "normal appearing" citizens.

Somebody said that the success of this operation proved that no tighter anti terror rules and methods are needed in Germany (long debate here). But that this operation would not have been possible without massive American intelligence, indicates the exact opposite. but politicians are already in fight again wether the visiting of a terror trainign camp should be under penalty, or not. So you know what to expect from our legislation.

And al Mazri - ah, don't even get me started. He is a tool, and it makes me feel like vomitting that he could manage to get so much attention again and again and again and again from parliamentaries in long conferences and debates. It's all an Islamic-political plot. He refused to become German citizen. after being rleased by the ameicans, he became German citizen all of a sudden, knowing that this would help him to attack the state. His behavior, his private clothing and his beard shows that he does not wish to integrate into German society at all, but at all costs wants to be see as different, and wants to remain separate. A shame how easily some people hostile to the state are given German nationality. Mazri was visiting Pakistani camps, and is supported and financed by german Islamic culture clubs of orthodox nature - well, it is known what these are. Mazri - that name already was far too often in headlines over here.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Skybird

and on pictures they did not wear birds.

Beards! Beards!

[Skybird]

Skybeard? I'm no pirate, you know.

[The Avon Lady]

The new Faces of Jihad.

[Skybird]

Okay they have beards. But only small ones. On TV, it looked like naked faces.

[AntEater]

Even 10,000 is too much.
I heard 4-5000 and I doubt even that.
Remember there's no official statistics and we're dealing with orientals here


Personally, I've known one converted guy in my whole life and he was a real loser. Some kind of a person who tried out every radical cult there is and got stuck with Islam because they wouldnt let him go again.

But the Ulm Center is certainly an embarrassment.
Run by the Pakistani government(!) to recruit people for Islam. They sent a bunch of german 18-20 year olds to Chechnya where most got killed.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by AntEater

Even 10,000 is too much.
I heard 4-5000 and I doubt even that.
Remember there's no official statistics and we're dealing with orientals here


Personally, I've known one converted guy in my whole life and he was a real loser. Some kind of a person who tried out every radical cult there is and got stuck with Islam because they wouldnt let him go again.

But the Ulm Center is certainly an embarrassment.
Run by the Pakistani government(!) to recruit people for Islam. They sent a bunch of german 18-20 year olds to Chechnya where most got killed.

You are right, my memory fooled me here. the numbers I gave are not the numbers of converted people per year, but the total of the last couple of years. estimations range from 18000 to 100.000, some investigators even say 150.000.

http://www.welt.de/welt_print/articl...n_Germany.html

But the speed at which this takes place is growing rapidly. The number of convertations in 2005 has quadrupled, as is shown in a statistic this year.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutsc...459544,00.html

[The Avon Lady]

And there you were all this time worrying about Tom Cruise!

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

And there you were all this time worrying about Tom Cruise!

Hä?

No, not so much Cruise himself, but his Scientology-background, and the organization itself. scientology took a lot of fire in recent months, and had some scandals about children fleeing from their parents ranking very high in the scientology hierarchy and seeked asylum with the police voluntarily ( the parents maybe will loose the right to raise them anymore). So their latest losses made them clever and cautious enough to keep their name out of the movie production now it seems. Their infiltration of education system and politics continues, though.

But that is a different story. On Cruise and that movie, I already mentioned that he is said to perform very well there, (not a given for me, I do not see him as a good actor necessarily), and thus said I was willing to give him a chance now. Which does not solve the principle issue of course, that a member of a totalitarian organisation plays the part of somebody who risked his life to fight totalitarianism. That's as if Arafat's greedy widow would playact mother Theresa.

[AntEater]

Scientology currently keeps a low profile.
Recently I came across some weird tents on a square in Frankfurt.
I knew these were Scientologists because they had used the same bright yellow tents at the same spot some time ago, only this time there was no "Scientology" written on them.
One of the people tried to get me interested in a "free stress test", to which I replied that I didn't have stress, only a terrible hangover (which was true). He replied that they could even help me with that.
I went away laughing because now I know why all those Hollywood celebs join them:
They claim to cure hangovers!

[Skybird]

The size of scientology is hard to estimate since they mix up the terms "members" and "customers", and since decades give wrong (and over decades never-changing) numbers on how big they are.

Ingo Heinemann is a profilated-known critic of scientology, and works as lawyer for a consumer rights organisation, and in a network countering psycho sects. Amongst the many things he attacks Scientology for, he gives estimations of their members pool in Germany, saying that in the early 80s they already must have had 200.000 to 300.o00 members. How high the number of unidentified "sleepers" in economical and politcal leadership hierarchies is, only the gods in Olymp can know. For that timeframe, they are estimated to have done one billion dollars worth of global business (it is not more than franchise enterprise selling Hubbard's texts by kind of a snowballing system, that combines business with aspects of a supressive and manipulative psycho sect). Considering that since the early eighties they have become far more aggressive and see themselves in an offensive since some years "to clear Germany", I would not be surprised at all if their members/customers pool in the past 25 years has not only grown over those 200-300 thousand, but has surpassed the barrier into the million. Time enough they had, money enough they had, and aggressive enough they are.

http://www.ingo-heinemann.de/

So what are you wondering that I am concerned about scientology, AL? this australian report is from 1965, published by the state of Victoria:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/audit/ar30.html
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/audit/ar31.html

from: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/audit/andrhome.html

And this is the present in Germany, published by the free state of Bavaria:

http://www.stmi.bayern.de/imperia/md...cientology.pdf
(German)