[TEC] Does the AI react to torpedo wakes?

LukeFF · 08-29-07, 02:39 AM

The reason I ask this is important. The Mark 18, a wakeless torpedo, came to be a widely-used weapon by the end of the war, credited with sinking over 1 million tons of shipping. However, I've heard reports from players saying the AI does not react to torpedo wakes. If that's the case, then there's no reason at all to use the Mark 18 (unless it can be fixed).

Comments?

Der Teddy Bar · 08-29-07, 02:48 AM

The AI does not see the gas torpedo's wake. This includes the escorts.

The cannot see your perscope outside of 250-300 metres.

sneekyzeke · 08-29-07, 04:00 AM

:hmm: Anyone have further references for this?

Ducimus · 08-29-07, 12:05 PM

Im going to take DTB's comments at face value, he knows his stuff in this regard.

sneekyzeke · 08-29-07, 01:26 PM

ok by me, thanks!

tater · 08-29-07, 01:32 PM

Making a test mission is straightforward.

Jap DD, hdg 180.

US sub, submerged, hdg 0, speed 0, 100 yards off the DD's track. Hit silent running. Fire fish without even taking a peek, go watch for reaction (listen, too, for the GQ sounds).

If they don;t react to that, they won't react period.

Then tweak the sensors to make them insanely good and try again.

That would definitively tell of if it's even possible.

Since you read many accounts of DDs dashing tot he launch point of fish, perhaps the launch noise (as detected by hydrophones) could be heavily bumped up. Course then they'd start evading before the wakes would have been possible to spot I guess.

tater

DyingCrow · 08-30-07, 08:41 PM

the only thing the AI do is zig zag manouvers when they come on a head to head approach (only sometimes, and its kinda effective), they dont dodge torpedoes at all. this would make some sense at night or stormy weather, but in normal conditions:hmm:...
thats why i love this tactic:
make a lotta noise to draw the targets attention, face him and hit back 2/3. he will speed up and come on a straight course to run you over, when hes at 500jj release 2 fish and watch him blow:rotfl:if there are more, you can then use the close wreck as cover.

tater · 08-30-07, 09:23 PM

I use the realistic torpedo mod, so the arming distance is the proper 450 yards (stock is 220m), I have to shoot farther on a closing target

tater

nattydread · 08-30-07, 09:28 PM

In previous patches, I had a Cruiser laying still at night instantly find my periscope at using his spotlight after my dud fish bounced off his hull. I was over 300yds out...maybe 350-400yds.

LukeFF · 09-02-07, 07:04 AM

So, I guess the consensus is "Don't use the Mark 18," then? It's quite a shame if that's true, because it would be really nice to have a wakeless torpedo, not to mention it saw widespread use.

Mraah · 09-03-07, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeFF

So, I guess the consensus is "Don't use the Mark 18," then? It's quite a shame if that's true, because it would be really nice to have a wakeless torpedo, not to mention it saw widespread use.

In earlier versions, I've seen ships react to torpedoes with just a speed change if the torpedo was indeed going to strike the ship. If the torpedo passed clear or under the ship I've seen no reaction. This tells me that it's only reacting to a collidable object as opposed to a threat reaction. You know, that same reaction you get when your undected sub at periscope depth is on a a collision course with the ship. You can test this using the submerge external view behind the ship and note any change to prop noise or rudder movement.

Now, on another sometimes overlooked condition or reason to use the mark18 would be how well the escorts search for your sub after they've been alerted to an attack by the sinking or damaged target. In theory, with mark14's they should be able to pinpoint your initial attack location and search from there. Whilst with mark18's they'll have to search randomly to locate you. You'll have take notes on your next attacks.

Mraah

WilhelmTell · 09-03-07, 05:38 AM

I can remember one thing in SH3. In the torpedo training mission there was a small coastal freighter right in front of the sub that always acclerated from all stop to ahead flank as soon as I sent a torpedo to him. I had the feeling he could see it coming and the AI was reacting to torpedo wakes !?!

hyperion2206 · 09-03-07, 05:42 AM

I agree with you that the JAP ships totally ignore torpedo wakes but now I've got a question for you: Didn't the ships in SH3 see torpedo wakes? Since SH4 is partly based on SH3 wouldn't it be possible to implement this feature from SH3 to SH4?:hmm:

hyperion2206 · 09-03-07, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WilhelmTell

I can remember one thing in SH3. In the torpedo training mission there was a small coastal freighter right in front of the sub that always acclerated from all stop to ahead flank as soon as I sent a torpedo to him. I had the feeling he could see it coming and the AI was reacting to torpedo wakes !?!

We had the same thought but you were faster, damn it.:p:rotfl:

Jhereg · 09-03-07, 11:45 AM

Yeah in SH3 they do appear to see Torps once they get close as just today a Dido class Cruiser saw my two eels and went to flank.

I had aimed at the first turret and forward superstructure, but when he accelerated I just barely caught him on the stern in front of his props with the lead eel.

He was still able to make 8kts and I fell out of position, had to end around to finish him.

08-29-07, 02:39 AM	#1
LukeFF Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Riverside, California Posts: 3,610 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 5	[TEC] Does the AI react to torpedo wakes? The reason I ask this is important. The Mark 18, a wakeless torpedo, came to be a widely-used weapon by the end of the war, credited with sinking over 1 million tons of shipping. However, I've heard reports from players saying the AI does not react to torpedo wakes. If that's the case, then there's no reason at all to use the Mark 18 (unless it can be fixed). Comments?

08-29-07, 04:00 AM	#3
sneekyzeke Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Sweet State, Georgia Posts: 134 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	hmmmmm... :hmm: Anyone have further references for this?

09-03-07, 05:38 AM	#12
WilhelmTell Engineer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Berlin, Germany, Europe Posts: 205 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	I can remember one thing in SH3. In the torpedo training mission there was a small coastal freighter right in front of the sub that always acclerated from all stop to ahead flank as soon as I sent a torpedo to him. I had the feeling he could see it coming and the AI was reacting to torpedo wakes !?! __________________ Regards, Tell

09-03-07, 05:42 AM	#13
hyperion2206 Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Cologne, Germany Posts: 1,227 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I agree with you that the JAP ships totally ignore torpedo wakes but now I've got a question for you: Didn't the ships in SH3 see torpedo wakes? Since SH4 is partly based on SH3 wouldn't it be possible to implement this feature from SH3 to SH4?:hmm: __________________ Career of Captain Jack Shaftoe:

08-29-07, 02:48 AM	#2
Der Teddy Bar Blade Master Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,388 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The AI does not see the gas torpedo's wake. This includes the escorts. The cannot see your perscope outside of 250-300 metres.

08-29-07, 12:05 PM	#4
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Im going to take DTB's comments at face value, he knows his stuff in this regard.

08-29-07, 01:26 PM	#5
sneekyzeke Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Sweet State, Georgia Posts: 134 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	ok by me, thanks!

08-29-07, 01:32 PM	#6
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Making a test mission is straightforward. Jap DD, hdg 180. US sub, submerged, hdg 0, speed 0, 100 yards off the DD's track. Hit silent running. Fire fish without even taking a peek, go watch for reaction (listen, too, for the GQ sounds). If they don;t react to that, they won't react period. Then tweak the sensors to make them insanely good and try again. That would definitively tell of if it's even possible. Since you read many accounts of DDs dashing tot he launch point of fish, perhaps the launch noise (as detected by hydrophones) could be heavily bumped up. Course then they'd start evading before the wakes would have been possible to spot I guess. tater

08-30-07, 08:41 PM	#7
DyingCrow Watch Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 15 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	the only thing the AI do is zig zag manouvers when they come on a head to head approach (only sometimes, and its kinda effective), they dont dodge torpedoes at all. this would make some sense at night or stormy weather, but in normal conditions:hmm:... thats why i love this tactic: make a lotta noise to draw the targets attention, face him and hit back 2/3. he will speed up and come on a straight course to run you over, when hes at 500jj release 2 fish and watch him blow:rotfl:if there are more, you can then use the close wreck as cover.

08-30-07, 09:23 PM	#8
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	I use the realistic torpedo mod, so the arming distance is the proper 450 yards (stock is 220m), I have to shoot farther on a closing target tater

08-30-07, 09:28 PM	#9
nattydread Captain Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 498 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	In previous patches, I had a Cruiser laying still at night instantly find my periscope at using his spotlight after my dud fish bounced off his hull. I was over 300yds out...maybe 350-400yds.

09-02-07, 07:04 AM	#10
LukeFF Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Riverside, California Posts: 3,610 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 5	So, I guess the consensus is "Don't use the Mark 18," then? It's quite a shame if that's true, because it would be really nice to have a wakeless torpedo, not to mention it saw widespread use.

09-03-07, 11:45 AM	#15
Jhereg Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Suffolk, Virginia Posts: 135 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Yeah in SH3 they do appear to see Torps once they get close as just today a Dido class Cruiser saw my two eels and went to flank. I had aimed at the first turret and forward superstructure, but when he accelerated I just barely caught him on the stern in front of his props with the lead eel. He was still able to make 8kts and I fell out of position, had to end around to finish him.