[TEC] How much was radar affected by bad weather?

[LukeFF]

Bulleye, you're right. The way radar is modeled right now depicts doppler radar, which only picks up moving objects; pulse radar, which gives a return on both stationary and moving objects, was the standard during the war.

Now, the reason I ask about fog affecting radar is this page I found at hnsa.org:

FACTORS AFFECTING RADAR RANGE

Maximum range factors. In order to give you some reason for the variation in range performance of radar sets, we shall list the factors affecting the maximum range of any radar:
1. Wave length.
a. Long wave length radar is best suited for air search.
b. Micro wave length radar is best suited for surface search.
2. Size of target.
3. Height of target.
a. Height of mast for surface target.
b. Height of plane for air target.
4. Target presentation (target angle).
5. Material of target.
6. Height of antenna.
7. Output power radar.
8. Sensitivity of receiver.
9. Atmospheric condition.
10. Type of indicator ("A" scope most sensitive).
11. Pulse repetition rate (determines maximum range scale that can be used).
12. Beam concentration.
13. Condition of radar equipment.
14. Operator's technique and skill.

Of interest is item 9. Is fog considered an "atmospheric condition" that can affect the range and reliability of pulse radar?

Here is another comment from that manual:

Remember that for all practical purposes radar is not affected by visual limitations. It can detect equally well through darkness and smoke, and almost as well through fog. (empahsis added)

I think I'm going to try a value of 0.2 and see how that affects things.

[tater]

Is fog in game tied to weather?

Meaning does it only appear in high wind states or otherwise stormy conditions?

tater

[LukeFF]

I think it only shows up in stormy conditions. Shame, because it'd be neat to try to navigate and detect ships in calm, yet foggy seas.

[tater]

If it's only storms then the "fog" value would also be simulating choppy seas, , pitching rolling decks (to which the radars are attached), etc.

Wasn't that a factor in RL?

tater

[LukeFF]

For those that are interested, I'm going to test out these settings in Sensors.cfg. My current patrol has only SD radar, so it's a bit hard to test:

Radar range factor=1
Radar fog factor=0.2
Radar light factor=0
Radar waves factor=0
Radar speed factor=0
Radar aspect=1
Radar enemy speed=0
Radar noise factor=0
Radar sensor height factor=0.5
Radar already tracking modifier=10
Radar decay time=150
Radar uses crew efficiency=true

Key changes here are to the fog, sensor height, and crew efficiency. I thought it was pretty silly these were all nulled out by default, since they are all factors listed above that affect radar performance. What's the point in having an Electricity/Sensors-qualified sailor if his efficiency doesn't affect the performance of radar?

[tater]

I'd be curious about waves, too. Seems like the altitude (as in altitude/azimuth) would be somewhat critical to using a radar, paritularly on an unstable, low platform like a sub.

Need to ask someone who knows. Donut?

tater

[Peto]

Simulating radar is even tougher than sonar (and sonar is Much more complicated than it is represented in SH). Having talked to a couple radar and sonar men from WWII I was presented with the following info:

Radar was great--when it worked. It had a tendancy to break down a lot--especially during an approach. Repairing it was a bear.

Atmospherics played havoc with it, gave false returns often. Contacts were frequently watched for quite a while before they were even reported as actual contacts as they tended to blend in so well with back-ground clutter.

Contacts hugging a coast were easily masked by the land mass behind them, often making radar useless in such circumstances.

Radar depth was 45 feet. This did reduce the effective range though.

As for sonar...

The best sonar conditions were NOT a flat calm sea but rather a 2-3 foot chop. During a flat calm in mid-day with clear skies the sun would heat the upper layer of water creating "the afternoon effect". This was basically a weak layer at about periscope depth.

Tha soundmen I talked with said they never (nor did they know anyone) who had located a submarine using passive sonar. The information gained from passive was from a known target so they could hear hull popping from depth changes and activity from repairs/damage etc. When a sub changed depth they could usually hear it.

The way they knew which way a target was turning was red-shift/blue-shift doppler effect. Hard to explain without sound assistance...

In a nut-shell: All this is (IMHO) is nearly impossible to mod without having direct access to the hard-code and pretty much gutting and recoding what is already there... Not my cup of tea. I just fix computers. The guys who code them are in a whole different mind-set.

Cheers!

Peto

[Sailor Steve]

That's great stuff, Peto!

As a non-submarine side-note, I would like to add that radar was also the bane of surface ships, especially the much-touted fire-control radar. It also had a tendency to break down...when the guns were fired! Seems the shock would shatter those big glass fuses and unplug connections. Graf Spee reported this happening, Nelson reported it while firing at Bismarck, and U.S. battleships had it happen...a lot.