What's going on here?

Fish · 08-20-07, 04:19 PM

Terror law puts Britons at risk of surveillance by US agents

A new law swept through Congress by the US government before the summer recess is to give American security agencies unprecedented powers to spy on British citizens without a warrant.
The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act was approved by Congress earlier this month to help the National Security Agency in the fight against terrorism. But it has now emerged that the bill gives the security services powers to intercept all telephone calls, internet traffic and emails made by British citizens across US-based networks.

As much of the world's telecoms networks and internet infrastructure runs through the US, the new act will give the security services huge scope for monitoring and intercepting Britons' private communications, as well as those of other foreign citizens. The new act has led to fears it will see a huge increase in the number of British citizens being extradited to the US.
'Just because it happens to pass through the US they claim they can do whatever they want,' said Tony Bunyan, director of Statewatch, the civil rights group that campaigns against state surveillance. 'Where is the EU saying, "What's going on here, we've got to protect the rights of our citizens?"'

The Dutch Liberal Democrat MEP Sophie in 't Veld has tabled a series of questions demanding answers from the EU parliament. In a statement to European politicians, In 't Veld warns the US law will 'directly apply to EU citizens and constitutes a major violation of privacy and civil liberties'.

The law has prompted a furore in the US, where it was opposed by Democrats Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. But other countries seem ignorant of its consequences. 'There's been a lot of upheaval in Congress about this new act over fears Bush will use it to eavesdrop on US citizens,' In 't Veld said. 'But it can and will be used for the communications of Europeans.'

She pointed out many companies and organisations are based in the US and that the new law will give the US powers to monitor their communications. 'For example, I would like to know what sort of communications go via the UN,' In 't Veld said.

Concern over US powers to monitor foreign citizens is growing. European privacy watchdogs have expressed fears that the US authorities are to be handed powers to check the personal details of travellers entering America and store them on databases alongside details such as their sexuality and religious beliefs for up to 15 years. The watchdogs, including the Information Commissioner of England and Wales, Richard Thomas, have been scathing in their criticism of the European Commission for granting the US its demand for the new powers.

In a coded statement the Information Commissioner's office yesterday acknowledged concerns that the privacy of some four million Britons who travel to the US each year is at risk because of the new powers.

'We will continue to work alongside our European data protection colleagues to try to ensure that airline passengers' details are protected by the appropriate data protection safeguards,' a spokeswoman told The Observer.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2151942,00.html

STEED · 08-20-07, 04:35 PM

Just in case the FBI or the CIA come knocking on my door I would like to say it's been great knowing you all.

There reason for calling is, I will not stand for Political Correctness.

Even so it's a bloody cheek which Gordon Brown the PM will say................

Jimbuna · 08-20-07, 04:42 PM

You know what they say STEED....."Don't vote, it only encourages them"

August · 08-20-07, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED

Just in case the FBI or the CIA come knocking on my door I would like to say it's been great knowing you all.

Why would they come knocking on your or anyone elses door?

STEED · 08-20-07, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED

Just in case the FBI or the CIA come knocking on my door I would like to say it's been great knowing you all.

Why would they come knocking on your or anyone elses door?

Good question my objection the RFID may be. :hmm:

Just out of curiosity would you guys in America have no problem if MI6 did the same?

JALU3 · 08-20-07, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED

Just in case the FBI or the CIA come knocking on my door I would like to say it's been great knowing you all.

Why would they come knocking on your or anyone elses door?

Good question my objection the RFID may be. :hmm:

Just out of curiosity would you guys in America have no problem if MI6 did the same?

I'm sure they do, and the russians, and the japanese, and the chinese, and the germans, and on and on and on and on and on . . . even the vatican. I am sure all good intellegene agencies attempt to tap into conversations coming from foreign sources into their country.

Now, if we think that there is a room of 100,000 people in Langley all listening to every conversation that is routed through the US to other places in the world, or into the US, and read every single Email that is sent that is routed through the US to other places, or to the US . . . etc. etc. . . . then you must think to much of our government.

Remember this is the government where according to our agricultural department, Ketchep is a Vegetable!
Eat up children, lets get your five servings of vegetables at the condiment caddy!

Sailor Steve · 08-20-07, 05:05 PM

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Laughing at myself here: I just saw The Bourne Ultimatum, and there's a scene at the big London train station. CIA surveillance uses the security cameras to track Bourne and friend. I said at the time "Yeah, like the Brits are going to go along with THAT!"

Maybe the jokes on me.:rotfl:

And yes, Steed, I would object...and so should you.

Damn furriners!

Jimbuna · 08-20-07, 05:20 PM

I reckon there is a lot more of this going on already, but obviously unbeknown to the public (need to know basis only) :hmm:

Skybird · 08-20-07, 05:24 PM

Some months ago, maybe early this year, I had a talk with a friend of mine who is with the BND (the German CIA), he confirmed something that to my surprise not many in public even seem to imagine: (translated) "Anti-terror-spionage is massively fueled by interests of industrial spionage, and the latter hides behind the first. You use the war on terror to gain profits from fields that have nothing to do with counter terror, but who can benefit from intel acitivities being widened in the name of counter terror intelligence. American intelligence activities are the major concern for european intel services today - the lion's share of industrial spionage we experience today is not by the Russians or Chinese, but the Americans. The chinese are second only, although growing. however, they are not as penetrating as the ameicans are, for they focus on product pirating first and stratgeic and political spionage second, while the Americans focus on strategic and political spying first and industrial spionage second. When we get data from the Americans we need to countercheck it four and five times to evade the fate of getting manipulated too often."

Believe it or not, I don't really care. Its not me saying all that, but a professional insider whom I deeply respect as a person, and whom I trust as a professional. So I'm just the messenger here.

A strange ally we have. We need to defend against him as much as against the declared enemy, it seems, and he uses the shared enemy as an alibi to raise his intelligence efforts against us, and in increasing dimensions. If you fly into the Us these days, Germans need to give most snsitive personal data to a foreign authority that even German authority would have no right to demando from you so easily, and it will be stored for 15 years withoiut any european institution having any trustworthy idea of what will be done with this data.

That same guy I quoted told me that I will need to be more aware of my internet comms and postings, and should take into account to drastically change by communication behavior.

Alraedy in 2003 I wrote that I am sure that my IP and avatar surely are already saved and my postings have triggered automatic word filters in some american ELINT networks. Since quite some time I am not using emails anymore to communicate with certain friends and get messages of certain content from them. Our own interior minster is fighting for legalizing secret onlince reasearch of private, unaware user's PC harddisks.

With this spy game around, and all that PC madness and EU's conspiracy with Islam it really is a nice time to become paranoic.

There is only one rescue to save the mood:

AVGWarhawk · 08-20-07, 06:03 PM

Yes, this is great, while we are busy watching you and you are busy watching me...the terrorist will be free to do what they want because the manpower to watch the terrorist will be watching security polishing their 9mm weapons. What a great time!

STEED · 08-20-07, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Yes, this is great, while we are busy watching you and you are busy watching me...the terrorist will be free to do what they want because the manpower to watch the terrorist will be watching security polishing their 9mm weapons. What a great time!

This should be emailed to those who need to see it.

Tchocky · 08-20-07, 06:36 PM

What's the big deal? If you have nothing to hide there's nothing to fear.

AVGWarhawk · 08-20-07, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tchocky

What's the big deal? If you have nothing to hide there's nothing to fear.

Exactly! If there is nothing to hide why bother doing it on the first place? A waste of manpower or womanpower as it were!

Skybird · 08-20-07, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tchocky

What's the big deal? If you have nothing to hide there's nothing to fear.

Old GeStaPo proverb.

Or was this an attempt to be ironic? This proverb is being used so inflationary today that I am allergic to it by now.

HMCS · 08-20-07, 07:58 PM

What is there to fear from the "Security" apparatus?

What you have to fear is the loss of your privacy. And with it your dignity, and with that, your humanity.

08-20-07, 04:19 PM	#1
Fish Eternal Patrol Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,923 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	What's going on here? Terror law puts Britons at risk of surveillance by US agents A new law swept through Congress by the US government before the summer recess is to give American security agencies unprecedented powers to spy on British citizens without a warrant. The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act was approved by Congress earlier this month to help the National Security Agency in the fight against terrorism. But it has now emerged that the bill gives the security services powers to intercept all telephone calls, internet traffic and emails made by British citizens across US-based networks. As much of the world's telecoms networks and internet infrastructure runs through the US, the new act will give the security services huge scope for monitoring and intercepting Britons' private communications, as well as those of other foreign citizens. The new act has led to fears it will see a huge increase in the number of British citizens being extradited to the US. 'Just because it happens to pass through the US they claim they can do whatever they want,' said Tony Bunyan, director of Statewatch, the civil rights group that campaigns against state surveillance. 'Where is the EU saying, "What's going on here, we've got to protect the rights of our citizens?"' The Dutch Liberal Democrat MEP Sophie in 't Veld has tabled a series of questions demanding answers from the EU parliament. In a statement to European politicians, In 't Veld warns the US law will 'directly apply to EU citizens and constitutes a major violation of privacy and civil liberties'. The law has prompted a furore in the US, where it was opposed by Democrats Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. But other countries seem ignorant of its consequences. 'There's been a lot of upheaval in Congress about this new act over fears Bush will use it to eavesdrop on US citizens,' In 't Veld said. 'But it can and will be used for the communications of Europeans.' She pointed out many companies and organisations are based in the US and that the new law will give the US powers to monitor their communications. 'For example, I would like to know what sort of communications go via the UN,' In 't Veld said. Concern over US powers to monitor foreign citizens is growing. European privacy watchdogs have expressed fears that the US authorities are to be handed powers to check the personal details of travellers entering America and store them on databases alongside details such as their sexuality and religious beliefs for up to 15 years. The watchdogs, including the Information Commissioner of England and Wales, Richard Thomas, have been scathing in their criticism of the European Commission for granting the US its demand for the new powers. In a coded statement the Information Commissioner's office yesterday acknowledged concerns that the privacy of some four million Britons who travel to the US each year is at risk because of the new powers. 'We will continue to work alongside our European data protection colleagues to try to ensure that airline passengers' details are protected by the appropriate data protection safeguards,' a spokeswoman told The Observer. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2151942,00.html

08-20-07, 04:35 PM	#2
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	Just in case the FBI or the CIA come knocking on my door I would like to say it's been great knowing you all. There reason for calling is, I will not stand for Political Correctness. Even so it's a bloody cheek which Gordon Brown the PM will say................ __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

08-20-07, 04:42 PM	#3
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,552 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	You know what they say STEED....."Don't vote, it only encourages them" __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

08-20-07, 05:05 PM	#7
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Laughing at myself here: I just saw The Bourne Ultimatum, and there's a scene at the big London train station. CIA surveillance uses the security cameras to track Bourne and friend. I said at the time "Yeah, like the Brits are going to go along with THAT!" Maybe the jokes on me.:rotfl: And yes, Steed, I would object...and so should you. Damn furriners! __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

08-20-07, 05:20 PM	#8
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,552 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	I reckon there is a lot more of this going on already, but obviously unbeknown to the public (need to know basis only) :hmm: __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

08-20-07, 05:24 PM	#9
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,637 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Some months ago, maybe early this year, I had a talk with a friend of mine who is with the BND (the German CIA), he confirmed something that to my surprise not many in public even seem to imagine: (translated) "Anti-terror-spionage is massively fueled by interests of industrial spionage, and the latter hides behind the first. You use the war on terror to gain profits from fields that have nothing to do with counter terror, but who can benefit from intel acitivities being widened in the name of counter terror intelligence. American intelligence activities are the major concern for european intel services today - the lion's share of industrial spionage we experience today is not by the Russians or Chinese, but the Americans. The chinese are second only, although growing. however, they are not as penetrating as the ameicans are, for they focus on product pirating first and stratgeic and political spionage second, while the Americans focus on strategic and political spying first and industrial spionage second. When we get data from the Americans we need to countercheck it four and five times to evade the fate of getting manipulated too often." Believe it or not, I don't really care. Its not me saying all that, but a professional insider whom I deeply respect as a person, and whom I trust as a professional. So I'm just the messenger here. A strange ally we have. We need to defend against him as much as against the declared enemy, it seems, and he uses the shared enemy as an alibi to raise his intelligence efforts against us, and in increasing dimensions. If you fly into the Us these days, Germans need to give most snsitive personal data to a foreign authority that even German authority would have no right to demando from you so easily, and it will be stored for 15 years withoiut any european institution having any trustworthy idea of what will be done with this data. That same guy I quoted told me that I will need to be more aware of my internet comms and postings, and should take into account to drastically change by communication behavior. Alraedy in 2003 I wrote that I am sure that my IP and avatar surely are already saved and my postings have triggered automatic word filters in some american ELINT networks. Since quite some time I am not using emails anymore to communicate with certain friends and get messages of certain content from them. Our own interior minster is fighting for legalizing secret onlince reasearch of private, unaware user's PC harddisks. With this spy game around, and all that PC madness and EU's conspiracy with Islam it really is a nice time to become paranoic. There is only one rescue to save the mood: __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

08-20-07, 06:03 PM	#10
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,261 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Yes, this is great, while we are busy watching you and you are busy watching me...the terrorist will be free to do what they want because the manpower to watch the terrorist will be watching security polishing their 9mm weapons. What a great time! __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

08-20-07, 06:36 PM	#12
Tchocky Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,874 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	What's the big deal? If you have nothing to hide there's nothing to fear. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

08-20-07, 07:58 PM	#15
HMCS Sonar Guy Join Date: May 2005 Location: Squaresville, daddy-O. Posts: 394 Downloads: 186 Uploads: 0	What is there to fear from the "Security" apparatus? What you have to fear is the loss of your privacy. And with it your dignity, and with that, your humanity. __________________ "Turning enemy ships into marine habitat since 1986!" Mods Loaded:TMO 2.2, RSRDC, MaxOptics, Strategic Map Symbols, Stop The Shouting OR: RFB, RSRDC, Maxoptics, SCAF, Strategic Map Symbols and the sanity-saving "stop the shouting".