More attractive SH4

[cunnutazzo]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Best way to help new players in a submarine simulation, is with easy to understand documentation informing them of information they are not aware of.

... offering to the customers a well completed game without too many bugs!

[John Channing]

Let's try to answer the man's question and keep the editorializing to a minimum, ok?

JCC

[elanaiba]

I think the right way is to have a gradual, logical learning curve that lures the player in and helps him both play the game and see that it is worth taking the time to learn more and dig deeper.

Easy way in? Hell yes! Godmode? No, I don't think so.

I always felt that hardcore flight sims and sims in general are more rewarding and spectacular than many arcade crap games. I've never sweat like I did in my Falcon 3 fights.

Make no mistake about it, there is no crazy hardcore realism freak at the helm of SH4.

Given the resources, we would do both the "core" and soft shell that helps new players.

[TDK1044]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

Given the resources, we would do both the "core" and soft shell that helps new players.

But given the fact that you're never going to be given those resources, Dan, in order to increase sales and attract the 'shoot em up' young console crowd, what do you lose by offering a "Godmode' option? Nobody here loses anything because we love sims and the challenges that they afford us, and if in order to increase sales and keep Ubisoft interested in the Silent Hunter franchise means attracting a younger console demographic to the game by offering a child like setting...who cares? Give them an invunerable sub and let them shoot the s**t out of stuff.

[elanaiba]

Tudor (check credits) and I have this joke about 7+ age rating: "Oh yeah, 7 years of Naval Academy".

Again, my opinion is that a simple godmode wouldn't do that much, because playing godmode ON would be only fun if you could find them targets, and the transition to "normal" would be as hard as it is now.

A little more work is needed elsewhere.

And, too much of little resources spent "elsewhere" may mean less of them in "core" areas. We've had enough of the boycott/won't buy/sue ubi threads as it is now, thank you very much

Anyway, take this for what it is - a debate on a forum.

[John Channing]

So a workable compromise would be a training campaign that starts with basic navigation, moves up through plotting an intercept course, a simple attack, a more complex attack, evading one escort, evading several escorts, and then a complete convoy attack.

The kicker would be that you would need an instructor on board with you in the same manner as the "Jane's Longbow" training missions (probably the best tutorials ever made for a combat sim).

All of this would have to be completed before you could take command of your own sub.

Works for me.

JCC

[fredbass]

Originally Posted by John Channing

So a workable compromise would be a training campaign that starts with basic navigation, moves up through plotting an intercept course, a simple attack, a more complex attack, evading one escort, evading several escorts, and then a complete convoy attack.

The kicker would be that you would need an instructor on board with you in the same manner as the "Jane's Longbow" training missions (probably the best tutorials ever made for a combat sim).

All of this would have to be completed before you could take command of your own sub.

Works for me.

JCC

Works for me too

[panzer 49th]

Originally Posted by Seadogs

I really don't think it attracts many "arcady" types to begin with.

It attracted me im an arcady type (not in this game though nothing arcade about it) (to a certain degree that is)

[ReallyDedPoet]

Something I think that would help would be some threads talking about some of the great things going on with SH4 now versus what was there in the beginning, SH4 bashing, etc., etc.

I am sure some of the newer members saw some of the earlier stuff and left as quick as they could

To me there is enough in the current game settings and mods for just about any level of player.


RDP

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by John Channing

So a workable compromise would be a training campaign that starts with basic navigation, moves up through plotting an intercept course, a simple attack, a more complex attack, evading one escort, evading several escorts, and then a complete convoy attack.

The kicker would be that you would need an instructor on board with you in the same manner as the "Jane's Longbow" training missions (probably the best tutorials ever made for a combat sim).

All of this would have to be completed before you could take command of your own sub.

Works for me.

JCC

Now that would be very nice. Earn your dolphins as it were. Get quailifed before you take the helm.

[Bear]

Attractive to "NEW" players. I started out on first person shooter sims. Yes, a God Mode is what I liked in the beginning. Blast the hell out of something/someone and enjoy the graphics.

My personality is such that I bored of that shortly and moved straight to the hardest level and of course got my butt beat, but I was hooked. Then I read the manual, then I did the tutioral missions.

To me the hardest part of a tactial sim is getting from point A to point B. If any of you played the CFS sims you remember that once you got X miles from your take off point you could hit the x button and be within range of the enemy quickly. You would drop out of warp, so to speak, a few miles from contact. TC in SH4 does not cut it, since you drop out ever few seconds due to radio traffic.

Even with the fantastic graphics of SH4, you can only enjoy a smoke on the bridge on a beautiful moon lite night a few dozen times unless you are a HCS, before that gets boring.

So if the question is posed to sell more units to keep UBI happy so they can keep us happy with a "good" expansion or SH5? I say Yes to a God mode, warp drive or whatever it takes to get NEW people to buy it.

I believe if they play it for just a little while they will want to play it on a harder level before long. Ha, Just make it an option. I like options...

[Marko_Ramius]

Someone spoke about Falcon 3 and yes, it was, for me, very usefull to have enough options to begin with this complex sim.

I'd say that yes, make a "god mod". it's always useful, without hurting the "hard core gamers".


Imagine a father who like realism and play SH4, then let the game to his very young sun : Both could be very happy and have fun with the game.


I already said this : The accesibility is part of the overall quality of a game.

[Mostinius]

I don't think a god mode would be strictly necessary, although I do agree with the points about providing a way to ease new players into sub sims - or into one particular sub sim.

My suggestion would be, firstly, comprehensive tutorials and context help built into the game. Second, a series of training missions (SH4 already has training missions, but they tend not to offer help while in progress, which would be useful).

Finally, I'd suggest that rather than make the player's boat indestructible, the best way to provide an easy in for the game would be to make the campaign tweakable. Rather than just choosing easy-medium-hard, like most games do, I'd allow the player comprehensive control over every aspect of the campaign generation engine (whatever it is), as well as the existing realism options. Using sliders or switches or whatever at the beginning of the campaign, the player could specify:

• The average number of ships that're likely to appear in any one encounter, and the available margin around the average that can be used for variation. So choosing 'one' and no margin would mean you only ever meet one ship at a time. There'd be a 'disable' option for this slider that would put the game into realistic mode.

• The density of convoys and groups in the play area (the higher the number the more frequently you'll encounter ships).

• The ratio of warships to merchants: from 100% merchant traffic down to a realistic distribution (you could, I suppose, include an option for 100% warships as well, but personally I can't see the point).

• The frequency and intensity of air attacks, down to a possible 'air attacks disabled' setting.

• The enemy's sensor effectiveness and tactical skill (down to zero for a happy hunting experience unmolested by things going bang all over you).

• A modifier for enemy weapon destructiveness. Even if they hit you, you could shrug it off. Again, the maximum setting would be realistic damage - or, I suppose, if you were a real glutton for punishment, you could allow for even higher settings (but again, I don't know why you'd want to).

• The frequency of different mission types, weighed between general patrols, photography, and such like; and the areas the missions are likely to put you.

You get the idea, I'm sure. It's true that most people will probably want high realism and the challenge that comes with it. The fact is that some players do play for fun more than education, and some inevitably find they have more fun playing a less realistic game - at least at first. Might be hard for some of the more dedicated simmers to understand, but there it is. As long as the full-realism options are there for those who want them, though, further options can only expand the game's appeal.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Mostinius

I don't think a god mode would be strictly necessary, although I do agree with the points about providing a way to ease new players into sub sims - or into one particular sub sim.

My suggestion would be, firstly, comprehensive tutorials and context help built into the game. Second, a series of training missions (SH4 already has training missions, but they tend not to offer help while in progress, which would be useful).

Finally, I'd suggest that rather than make the player's boat indestructible, the best way to provide an easy in for the game would be to make the campaign tweakable. Rather than just choosing easy-medium-hard, like most games do, I'd allow the player comprehensive control over every aspect of the campaign generation engine (whatever it is), as well as the existing realism options. Using sliders or switches or whatever at the beginning of the campaign, the player could specify:

• The average number of ships that're likely to appear in any one encounter, and the available margin around the average that can be used for variation. So choosing 'one' and no margin would mean you only ever meet one ship at a time. There'd be a 'disable' option for this slider that would put the game into realistic mode.

• The density of convoys and groups in the play area (the higher the number the more frequently you'll encounter ships).

• The ratio of warships to merchants: from 100% merchant traffic down to a realistic distribution (you could, I suppose, include an option for 100% warships as well, but personally I can't see the point).

• The frequency and intensity of air attacks, down to a possible 'air attacks disabled' setting.

• The enemy's sensor effectiveness and tactical skill (down to zero for a happy hunting experience unmolested by things going bang all over you).

• A modifier for enemy weapon destructiveness. Even if they hit you, you could shrug it off. Again, the maximum setting would be realistic damage - or, I suppose, if you were a real glutton for punishment, you could allow for even higher settings (but again, I don't know why you'd want to).

• The frequency of different mission types, weighed between general patrols, photography, and such like; and the areas the missions are likely to put you.

You get the idea, I'm sure. It's true that most people will probably want high realism and the challenge that comes with it. The fact is that some players do play for fun more than education, and some inevitably find they have more fun playing a less realistic game - at least at first. Might be hard for some of the more dedicated simmers to understand, but there it is. As long as the full-realism options are there for those who want them, though, further options can only expand the game's appeal.

I think those are all great ideas. I've played games with settings like that as options, so it can be done. It would allow people to customize their experiences and it would allow people like me to play it as hardcore as they liked.

[SS401]

Hallo maerean_m,

you may excuse my English and hopefully understand what I would like to express.

I'm quiet new to the Subs. Played my last game about ten, fifteen years and more ago. Now, for a couple of month its for me - from the deep blue sky to the deep of the ocean. From „fast“ and „seconds“ to „slow“ and „hours“. It is still not easy for me to understand and to get the craftmannship to handle a Sub and a crew like a Captain have to! I'm playing on "Easy"

To get more fans and players for SH4 – I would do what TDK1044 is saying in his first Post! Just like that – do it! He's right no doubt about it!

To get into the game/life of the deep blue sea, the Thrill to hunt, to calculate, to be smart and so on – yes you need something like a real school. You need a very good training and understanding of the work of a Seaman. In the German UBI forum i.e. they wrote a good book!!

This game is still full of a lot off errors and bugs. Eliminate them – One by One. That would be a step into the right direction as well, I am absolute sure! Thats the way to keep the Moral up!

And last but not least – don't be to proud. Take the help and the ideas of all the People you can get. There are fantastic, very clever people around here, with brilliant Talent! Get them involved – and you will be No. 1 !

Good luck
SS401