point and shoot possible?

[Joe S]

In the days of Sub Battle Simulator,and SHI people figured out that if you had a good estimate on target speed, you could easily estimate the amount of lead required for a hit and at close range you could reliably get hits by aiming the periscope ahead of the target by the requisite number of degrees. I tried that in SHIV but the only way I can get it to work is by using the gyro angle setter which is limited to 15 or 20 degrees from the heading of the boat. does anyone know if we can use the scope to point to where we want to shoot without entering data into the TDC? Thanks! Joe S

[louist]

There may be a better way to do it, but you can in realistic mode if you take a distance reading in the direction that you think the torpedo should go, leaving the speed of the target at zero (in which case the direction of the target is obviously irrelevant). Also, note that the computer calculates for a initial straight run, so the direction of the torpedo will be very different from the direction you point the scope if :
a) it is close and/or
b) it is not directly ahead or behind

For that reason, I max out the range when I am taking such a pot shot, and try to wait until the boat is pointed in the direction I want to fire.

[Asmodean]

Point and shoot can be a bit tricky:

a, turn off Position Keeper
b, set target speed to zero (and send it to the TDC), this makes the targets' course irrelevant
c, set the range as high as possible (don't turn the dial, use the normal gear, just bring the two images really close to each other and you will get a large range, everything about 3000m is fine)
d, look into the direction you want to fire and click 'send range to TDC' (which also sends the direction)
e, fire away

As louist said, the trick is the difference between the point from which you gather your data (tower) and the point where the torpedo starts to turn (several meters away from the tube). Because of this, the torpedo angle has to be a bit larger than the one you measured, it is set this way automatically and there's nothing you can do about it. You can, however, minimize the effect:

a, The longer the range, the smaller the correction the TDC makes (-> step c)
b, The smaller the angle, the smaller the correction, you can ignore the range if you shoot at 0 or 180 degrees.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Asmodean

Point and shoot can be a bit tricky:

a, turn off Position Keeper
b, set target speed to zero (and send it to the TDC), this makes the targets' course irrelevant
c, set the range as high as possible (don't turn the dial, use the normal gear, just bring the two images really close to each other and you will get a large range, everything about 3000m is fine)
d, look into the direction you want to fire and click 'send range to TDC' (which also sends the direction)
e, fire away

This is a nearly perfect list. Step c is not necessary though, as at zero speed, range cancels out. The range can be whatever garbage resides in the TDC when you turn it on. I tried it out last night during an actual career, and verified that setting any range (mine was zero, having counted down to that from a previous AOB 0º shot) is not necessary.

See how the fast-90 attack method works at http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=625379&postcount=66
and jump to the end of the thread for my test reports. This technique turns point and shoot into point and carnage! I took out 2 ships in 30 seconds this morning. Most of that time was just waiting for ship #2 to slip into the crosshairs.

So you're onto something here! Have fun.

[GT182]

You can unlock the target you've selected, put your crosshairs on any portion of the ship and fire. I've hit center locked, fore and aft unlocked with no problems. TDC will remember range and speed of the target. Just make sure you open the "tube" before you launch that fish.

My reply isn't inteneded to take away from your technique Rockin Robbins.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by GT182

You can unlock the target you've selected, put your crosshairs on any portion of the ship and fire. I've hit center locked, fore and aft unlocked with no problems. TDC will remember range and speed of the target. Just make sure you open the "tube" before you launch that fish.

My reply isn't inteneded to take away from your technique Rockin Robbins.

Not at all! You GWXers are bringing a whole new world over here to SH4 land. Just remember that in SH4, when you sight onto the fore or aft part of the ship, unlike SH3 where the TDC automatically follows the periscope, you must push the send bearing to TDC button to hit that spot. Otherwise there goes another torpedo to the exact spot you hit last.

I believe the Germans would have killed to have an American TDC/PK. But Americans mostly (except for Dick O'Kane and very few other TDC gurus) did not understand German torpedo aiming principles. The Germans would have loved to have another tool, but would not have depended on it for their success. Most American skippers would have to go home if the PK broke down.

[greyrider]

Originally Posted by Joe S

In the days of Sub Battle Simulator,and SHI people figured out that if you had a good estimate on target speed, you could easily estimate the amount of lead required for a hit and at close range you could reliably get hits by aiming the periscope ahead of the target by the requisite number of degrees. I tried that in SHIV but the only way I can get it to work is by using the gyro angle setter which is limited to 15 or 20 degrees from the heading of the boat. does anyone know if we can use the scope to point to where we want to shoot without entering data into the TDC? Thanks! Joe S

well joe, the good news is that you can point and shoot in sh4, without
using the targetting mechanics of the PK, and stratimeter.
i never used the german tdc in sh3. and i dont use the stuff in sh4, and i hardly ever miss a target.
i do not care about a targets course, accept its relativity to my sub. i get on a ninety degree
course to target, just by getting him on my 80 degree bearing, if its a closing target, and wait for him to approach.
port side advance for closing targets, get him on bearing 280.



starboardside advance, get him on your 80 degree bearing, for closing targets.
for the stern, get target on bearing 260 or 100 degree bearing , depending on which way the target
is closing. this can be done over 30 km away, by sound.
this is all you really have to do to get on a ninety degree course, for shooting, the targets AOB will determine how much you need to travel, once you turn to
get him on a collision course, if his AOB is small, you may just need to turn and stop, and wait, he will cross your bow at a beautiful 90 degrees.
if his AOB is deep, or moderate, you may have to travel a couple of km to get close, but he still crosses your bow, on a ninety degree angle.
thats all i do to get on a collision course with a target, simple isnt it. i never miss.

do not touch, set, or otherwize F with the PK, keep your scope free. get the bearing speed charts
from the sound trainer tutorial,
once you get the speed bearing charts from the sound trainer, now you will have the attack angles for different speeds of targets,
calculate the targets speed, i use ships length., once you got his speed, now wait until he closes to the firing bearing for that speed, and torpedoes los!
the target is all done, after that.
in convoy attacks, do the same thing, get the bulk , or the loudest portion of the sound signal, on 80, 280, 100, or 260 bearings, depending on its direction of approach.
calculate convoys speed, then when the ships approach the firing bearing, Los torpedoes, as the targets are crossing the bearing.
depending on how many torpedoes are in your forward tubes, you can have 4 to six hits, on four to six different targets.

i just remembered , the bearing speed charts in the sonar tutorial are for german torpedoes, you can get the bearing speed charts for american torpedoes here:

http://hosted.filefront.com/greyrider/

[GT182]

RR, not true. I've been using auto TDC in SH4 and still hit where the crosshairs are aimed on the target, with the scope unlocked. And GWX has nothing to do with it.

You might want to check the discussions before you jump in and say it can't be done. Maybe you can do it in SHIII also but I've never tried. SH4 is the first I've heard it being done, as others have done it and said so. That's the only reason I tried it and found it works with SH4's auto TDC too.

[XLjedi]

Originally Posted by GT182

RR, not true. I've been using auto TDC in SH4 and still hit where the crosshairs are aimed on the target, with the scope unlocked. And GWX has nothing to do with it.

You might want to check the discussions before you jump in and say it can't be done. Maybe you can do it in SHIII also but I've never tried. SH4 is the first I've heard it being done, as others have done it and said so. That's the only reason I tried it and found it works with SH4's auto TDC too.

I must be dense as a doornail or totally not following, or somethin... cuz I've been ranting about the scope being disconnected from the TDC for some time.

What am I missing?

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by aaronblood

I must be dense as a doornail or totally not following, or somethin... cuz I've been ranting about the scope being disconnected from the TDC for some time.

What am I missing?

You're not missing anything. If you are on manual, pressing the send bearing/range button is what tells the torpedo which direction to go. From that moment you can lower the scope, point it any way you want, fold it up and put it in your pocket, the the torpedo is going where you told it by pressing the button. This results in some very entertaining curse words if you're not expecting it. The only way the torpedo automatically follows the scope is if you are not on full manual targeting. In that case you don't have a send bearing/range button anyway.

[don1reed]

The "Sugar Boats" did not have a TDC. They used this formula:

Offset Angle of Collision = asin (( target speed / torp speed ) x sin Aob ).

However, they could direct the torp via gyro-angle...if needed.