Convoy tactics in 44

Originally Posted by CapnMike U-69

Good luck anyway, and happy Huntin' . Let us know what happened, Please!

Hello CptMike, I've tried various things with 0 result. If any would produce a slight effect I would probably evade using it. After 12 hrs of cat and mouse my boat was crushed while passing 275m... There probably came another DD as bombs start falling again. My crew was half awake, batteries were going empty but most damages repaired so I tried to go deeper. Without any warning the hull imploded...

Now I've started the same career but with SH3 cmd, picked a C41 from it and lets hope it didn't f... with long repair mod (as before) and add extra depth to my boat + thermal layers and other variables which could allow me to survive. This time extra caution 5 minutes after leaving homebase...

[ichso]

Originally Posted by Hadrys

Hello CptMike, I've tried various things with 0 result. If any would produce a slight effect I would probably evade using it. After 12 hrs of cat and mouse my boat was crushed while passing 275m... There probably came another DD as bombs start falling again. My crew was half awake, batteries were going empty but most damages repaired so I tried to go deeper. Without any warning the hull imploded...

Now I've started the same career but with SH3 cmd, picked a C41 from it and lets hope it didn't f... with long repair mod (as before) and add extra depth to my boat + thermal layers and other variables which could allow me to survive. This time extra caution 5 minutes after leaving homebase...

Sry to hear that Adam.
Why don't you start over in 39 or 40 and see how the submarine technology develops over time ? This is fun too apart from beeing the hunted from the very beginning of your career .
I like to start in a IIA which teaches me to apprechiate the later boat's speed, armament and max depth.

Originally Posted by CapnMike U-69

and then rapidly change Direction (ie: hit reverse emergency) with full opposite rudder

I don't think going emergency reverse would be a good idea. You just ruin your turning rate with that and compensate the effect of your evasion maneuver.
In fact, if you change rudder from hard [one side] to hard [the other side] while changing from flank to flank reverse, you will still be turning in the same direction as before ( at the point you start moving backwards at least).

Originally Posted by ichso

Sry to hear that Adam.
Why don't you start over in 39 or 40 and see how the submarine technology develops over time ? This is fun too apart from beeing the hunted from the very beginning of your career .
I like to start in a IIA which teaches me to apprechiate the later boat's speed, armament and max depth.

Probably u were out that time. I've started a new career in 39 with type IX, it was like a superman, invincible and death was all over the place wherever I went... in type II it was so boring and after sinking a 3000 with 2 eels and trying to hunt a DD I was left with 1 eel I said enough...

I'll probably start a new carrer in VIIB but now I'm determined to make some progress in 44

Originally Posted by ichso

In fact, if you change rudder from hard [one side] to hard [the other side] while changing from flank to flank reverse, you will still be turning in the same direction as before ( at the point you start moving backwards at least).

The best way when shallow is to make a sharp turn, sharper than a DD can do and get to his blind zone between him and side bombs distance. He can't hurt you.

[joegrundman]

Well, after my first brilliant attack mentioned above, i wizzed ahead of the convoy got into position again and got another Grosse Ladung, Liberty and a Grosse Frachter. I sneaked off out the back of the convoy and just when i thought i'd made it I got picked up by the rearguard.

This time they really have me pinned. I got hit once and am presently at 250m and trying to throw off at least 2 DDs. Tried 2 bold maneuvers but it's no good.

Once there's two of them on you...

It's going to be a long trying time before i'm lucky enough to throw them both off. If, that is.

[Puster Bill]

Originally Posted by ReM

Snorting all the time is not accurate....U-boats used to snort only for a couple of hours a day, leaving them almost blind because the vibrations from the engines running at high speeds made the use of the periscope almost impossible and tended to disturb the alignment of the glasses in it, running submerged with diesels clanking makes use of the hydrophones pretty useless as well, making the U-boat alomost deaf.

Running around submerged making a lot of noise, while yourself being almost blind and deaf, now that is inviting trouble.....they had to do it though to charge their batteries.....or surface into the hornets nest above.

I am reading The hunted by Clay Blair....I devoured the first volume and the first part of the second book; I do have some trouble getting through the last part from the end of 1943 onwards. It is a pretty sad tale of scores of U-boats being destroyed without standing a chance, many on their first patrols. Pure sacrifice of young men to keep intact the 'outer defense' for Germany.

The 'Happy Times' were named that for a reason.................

Heh. getting through the last half of 'The Hunted' is like surviving in 1944/45. It isn't fun, but you can do it....


Anyway, the correct answer is that you use your snort only long enough to recharge your batteries, and you run on batteries at 2 or 3 knots the rest of the time (I prefer 3 knots, but GWX's 'ahead slow' is 2 knots. Therefore, I specify the speed on the knotmeter).

That means that you are going to have to brush up on sound-only intercepts, and just plain accept the fact that you aren't going to be able to intercept very much, and most of those will be individual destroyers out on ASW patrols.

From mid to late 1943 to the end of the war, your focus should be on survival, not tonnage.

[Heibges]

You guys are correct, I should have been more detailed in my post. I should have specified remaining "submerged" all the time.

I will post Doenitz's comments on this tactical development in a little while.

Any ideas why I can't deploy my Schnorchel this patrol? Nicht verfügbar no mater if I'm under or surfaced. It's not damaged etc...

Currently proceeding through BF16 towards AM41. 256x TC max and maximum caution. Diving on high speed to 25m on radar warnings is enough to avoid ACs and detect ships. Looking forward to my first engagement.

[Penelope_Grey]

I actually think of SH3 and particularly the whole GWX thing as like a big boxing match.

There you have two contenders in the ring, in one corner, you have U-boat, a strong challenger but just not strong enough to really win the fight despite their experience, and then you have the ASW definately a strong contender but a total novice in the ways of the battle.

At first its a drawn fight, U-boat and ASW going head to head in the ring, looks pretty good so far, but U-boat looks to be doing more damage then they are receiving. Using all their experience and utilising every opportunity available and every defficiency in ASW's stance, U-boat lands blow after blow after blow on ASW but despite taking the best U-boat has to offer, ASW though bloodied and battered still fights on! Thus ends the first third of the fight.

ASW at the end of the first round gets wise to the tricks U-boat is using, ASW manages to learn on the fly what U-boat is all about, and suddenly, the bell rings and the second third comes. ASW comes out fighting, using new and improved punching techniques against U-boat... U-boat has never encountered this before. But still determined that he can win U-boat keeps fighting, suddenly, its anybody's match. Time goes on in the round and the crowd looks on in awe as U-boat is being actually beaten back by ASW.

The final third of the fight comes U-boat is confused and afraid, ASW is preventing him from landing any punches now. Despite U-boat trying to use better punches and ducks and dodges, U-boat is just not able to stop the momentum that ASW has built the fight is lost and U-boat knows it. U-boat can only land occasional blows now, which only serve to infuriate ASW more. ASW is resoundingly trouncing U-boat continually using better punches. U-boat's only chance now, is to survive the fight to the final bell without getting knocked out thus depriving his opponent of that glory.

Well that's how I see it anyway.

[Heibges]

ASW has a long reach. Uboat short and stocky with a killer jab.

[JackSparrow]

Originally Posted by Heibges

ASW has a long reach. Uboat short and stocky with a killer jab.

haha

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

I actually think of SH3 and particularly the whole GWX thing as like a big boxing match.

There you have two contenders in the ring, in one corner, you have U-boat, a strong challenger but just not strong enough to really win the fight despite their experience, and then you have the ASW definately a strong contender but a total novice in the ways of the battle.

At first its a drawn fight, U-boat and ASW going head to head in the ring, looks pretty good so far, but U-boat looks to be doing more damage then they are receiving. Using all their experience and utilising every opportunity available and every defficiency in ASW's stance, U-boat lands blow after blow after blow on ASW but despite taking the best U-boat has to offer, ASW though bloodied and battered still fights on! Thus ends the first third of the fight.

ASW at the end of the first round gets wise to the tricks U-boat is using, ASW manages to learn on the fly what U-boat is all about, and suddenly, the bell rings and the second third comes. ASW comes out fighting, using new and improved punching techniques against U-boat... U-boat has never encountered this before. But still determined that he can win U-boat keeps fighting, suddenly, its anybody's match. Time goes on in the round and the crowd looks on in awe as U-boat is being actually beaten back by ASW.

The final third of the fight comes U-boat is confused and afraid, ASW is preventing him from landing any punches now. Despite U-boat trying to use better punches and ducks and dodges, U-boat is just not able to stop the momentum that ASW has built the fight is lost and U-boat knows it. U-boat can only land occasional blows now, which only serve to infuriate ASW more. ASW is resoundingly trouncing U-boat continually using better punches. U-boat's only chance now, is to survive the fight to the final bell without getting knocked out thus depriving his opponent of that glory.

Well that's how I see it anyway.

behold the brilliance of Penelope

that is a perfect analogy.

[Puster Bill]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

behold the brilliance of Penelope

that is a perfect analogy.

It's down right pot-roastian.

[TarJak]

Top post Pen! Penelope is absolutely spot on. The problem is that the fight is fixed! We all know the result before the bout starts. ASW by a KO in the 3rd.

[Penelope_Grey]

As Princess Leia once said, "You have your moments, not many, but you do have them."

[joegrundman]

Good analogy, but not one that yields many tactical insights other than feign insanity, blindness, or even beg to be permitted to serve as an infantryman on the eastern front. or more practically, play sh4, where the happy times never end.

Despite my earlier confidence, I died. Couldn't shake off a DD. Like Hadrys, it just picked me up on active on each circle, without fail. Neither depth, aspect ratio or angle on bow made any difference unless i was in his baffles.

Throwing DiD out of the window, i reloaded to just after i'd been first detected and have played it out now at least 10 times, trying to find some approach that works for throwing off the DD's for future reference

They have all failed.

My depth is 260m, it is a flat calm upstairs. i have tested that i start to lose hull integrity if i go much deeper, and that is a process that once started is terminal. Also at that depth, even the slightest incurrence of damage is fatal

I'm using bold, i'm not using bold, i'm speeding up and changing direction, or I'm not. I hide behind merchants, i run straight out as far as i can. It doesn't matter, i cannot shake off the attacker and within 30 minutes or so, one depth charge or hedgehog bomb has caused some damage and that is it.

If i do speed up, i just draw in other boats, but if i stay quiet only the one dd keeps on me, but keep on me it does.

I dunno...i see why some may not consider it much fun.

The lesson seems to be, do not ever let a DD get a fix on you. Just start a new career.