This game is scripted...

[HMCS]

Playing Grey Wolves mod w/ SHC.

Ok, barring any long shot or questionable moves on my part...

I admit, I save and replay fairly often, and the conclusion I have come to is, that the game sets up the results of the battles before you even get to shoot.

I have played this game for YEARS. Two really annoying things have become apparent.

First of all, surface attacks at night are invariably ineffective. The escorts ARE ALWAYS in position to intercept. Even on dark nights with weather on my side, I have yet to get in a surface shot under 3K. yds. Later in the war, they become pretty much impossible to pull off. Not realistic, considering that the Battle of The Atlantic was a "near-run thing" until May of '43. Most U-Boat attacks were carried out on the surface.

I have a saved game where I have penetrated a convoy and line up a near-perfect shot on 3 T3's. In 8 replays, the results were: hit 4 ships, sank 0: 3 times. Hit 3 ships, sank 1: 3 Times. Hit 3 ships, sank 0: 2 times. In each case, despite hitting the ships near/at the engine room sections of the ship, each T3 was able to shrug off each hit (pretty neat trick, considering their cargo) and kick their speed up to 12 kts.

Random? Not nearly. Realistic? In the words of Tony Soprano, fuhgetaboutit.

Which is what I am going to do with this game. Uninstall and fuhgetaboutit.

[Iron Budokan]

LOL! SH3 scripted? That's the funniest thing I've read this month. Yes, you can get in closer to convoys early in the war...IF you know what you're doing. And here's another shocker: the escorts are SUPPOSED to be in a position to intercept. That's why they're escorts. Where do you want them, back in Dover? :rotfl:

Get real. If you've really been playing this game for years and have yet to get within 3k meters of a convoy, even in the early stages of the war, then it's YOU and not the game.

[ReM]

Surface attack at night: move in with decks awash (about 7,5 mtrs deep) and you can get REAL close without being detected....you have to time your approach a little in order to avoid the escorts though...

I even managed to get inside the convoy without being detected a few times...

Give it a try.....

About the sinkings:

I agree that the torps should be a tad more powerful....it takes too much torpedoes for a kill; but you can always get off a shot aimed for the bow which is very effective....going for engineroom or funnel hits used to work wonders in stock SHIII, not so in GWX.

[Penelope_Grey]

Surface attacks are not impossible at all, they are very possible right into 1942 they can still be done. Its all about positioning, and yes even in early war when the escorts were not that great but were still good enough to find and drive away an attacking U-Boat. The job of the escorts was to drive U-boats away and if possible, destroy them. Their primary goal is to protect the convoy.

Escorts sweep the area around the convoy so that you cannot get in close When U-boats get close there is more chance their torpedo will hit, getting past an escort requires a degree of cunning, sometimes you may have to submerge to PD and let him go by, sometimes you may just have to pull back and return again in 20 minutes or so till the escort has gone his way. The main thing ya need.... patience.... and another useful thing; persistence.

Some good tips are to put the boat low in the water, 7m is a bit too low in my view as it slows you down too much so I go with about 6m. This is a must in type IX's due to their long crash dives.

So you have to sneak, make sure the escorts can't see your broadside and the key thing, slow and steady. Doing a Das Boot, charging in at ahead flank only works if there are no escorts there to see your attack. The steadier you go the better, as you are not creating the same kind of wake that you would make at flank. Also, before you start the attack figure out what you are going to shoot at before hand, and try to make all the torpedoes hit around the same time.

The real remarkable thing... you may actually be able to escape on the surface too! If you can turn round and run like hell at flank you could well get away with it and not have to suffer a single depthcharge! Cool huh? This principle is the case for all versions of the game be it base game, GWX, WAC etc...

You say you are playing The Grey Wolves mod, you mean the first one, or the second incarnation - GWX?

[SmokinTep]

Bye Bye..............

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

The main thing ya need.... patience.... and another useful thing; persistence.

I agree wholeheatedly Pen!

Penelope missed mentioning only one of the 3 P's; Planning! Thought she did describe doing it. Work out how you will approach, what you will shoot at and how you will get away BEFORE trying to get close. Once you have a method that works keep using it.

As you can see from the responses it can be done with some personal application. You think that this is not a realistic game? I suggest you do some research and reading on the subject. It was not easy for an RL Kaluen to sneak up to a convoy and just shoot and kill.

Wishing that this game was easier, I would say it is not realistic. I don't think I've seen a less scripted game. Even running the same situation after saving several times I have observed very different behaviours by the escorts and convoys particularly when they are aware of your presence. After nearly 3 years of playing I'm constantly surprised by the new things I see am still blown away by the complexity and detail that is in it.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by TarJak

Penelope missed mentioning only one of the 3 P's; Planning!

<shudders> This comment brought back memories of my Army days and the "7 P's" - "Prior Preparation and Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance".

Still follow that mantra through to this very day.

And it's just as relevant in SH3.

[Puster Bill]

I get a laugh when people complain about tankers not sinking.

Tankers are compartmented vessels that are either full of air when empty, and thus have a great deal of reserve bouyancy, or they are full of liquid that is lighter than water, and thus have a great deal of reserve bouyancy.

In real life, tankers were harder to sink than cargo vessels, because of the compartmentalization inherent in a vessel designed to ship liquids.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by JScones

<shudders> This comment brought back memories of my Army days and the "7 P's" - "Prior Preparation and Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance".

Still follow that mantra through to this very day.

And it's just as relevant in SH3.

Can't get by without it. In RL or simulation.

[The Munster]

Originally Posted by JScones

<shudders> This comment brought back memories of my Army days and the "7 P's" - "Prior Preparation and Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance".

Still follow that mantra through to this very day.

And it's just as relevant in SH3.

..brought back memories of School days, the 4 S 's we were not allowed to do
Spitting, Swearing, Shouting and Singing .. the good old days.

[nikbear]

Originally Posted by Puster Bill

I get a laugh when people complain about tankers not sinking.

Tankers are compartmented vessels that are either full of air when empty, and thus have a great deal of reserve bouyancy, or they are full of liquid that is lighter than water, and thus have a great deal of reserve bouyancy.

In real life, tankers were harder to sink than cargo vessels, because of the compartmentalization inherent in a vessel designed to ship liquids.

While I agree with you there,There are exceptions,Yes I'm looking at you passenger/cargo that really needs looking at

[Penelope_Grey]

Well I suppose if you shout loud enough somebody will listen to you over issues like that. :rotfl:

[IrischKapitan]

Originally Posted by nikbear

While I agree with you there,There are exceptions,Yes I'm looking at you passenger/cargo that really needs looking at

Yes and your also forgetting, that tankers carried anything from crude oil to petrol to normal water (yes water!! how do you think troops survived in Africa without their daily ration of water!)

[nikbear]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

Well I suppose if you shout loud enough somebody will listen to you over issues like that. :rotfl:

I do hope so Pen,I hate those things with a passion,as an experiment I thought I'd see how much punishment one could take and still stay afloat,three,yes 3 torps and at least 20 105mm shells and the bloody thing still made 4 knots without a single superstructure left on the boat! even when it did grind to a halt it didn't sink for ages,it just sat in the water bobing along like a cork in a pond truly awful.

[Puster Bill]

Originally Posted by nikbear

it just sat in the water bobing along like a cork in a pond truly awful.

Maybe that was the cargo: Cork.

Yeah, liquid cork.