Button or key request--decks awash

Sailor Steve · 07-18-07, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Seems like I've read of running on diesels while decks were awash.

They certainly could do that and I'm sure some did use the diesels in that condition. My real objection is that I've been involved with all kinds of gamers over the last 30 years, and my great frustration (as with the deck gun ROF threads) isn't that some things were or weren't possible; it's that most gamers I've ever dealt with don't really care what was done, they just want whatever helps them the most.

I think that surface 'decks awash' attacks used electrics mainly because of the noise and smoke factors. One thing I am sure of is that they didn't "run all over the oceans" in that condition, just so they could dive faster.

Peto · 07-20-07, 09:24 AM

I agree. Decks awash=loss of bouyancy=a big wave poops you and you're submerged minus one watch crew. From the reading/interviews/studying I've done I'd have to say decks awash was only used for attacks--and almost always with electrics engaged.

However--it wasn't uncommon to be "a little" flooded down while on routine patrol. The tanks were typically blown completelt dry only when speed and full fuel efficiency was required such as an end-around or in transit. So you can keep a little water in your negative bouyancy tank

. Even a couple feet can help when evading pesky bees.

Cheers!

Peto

PS: The reason most skippers dove all day wasn't just so they woul;dn't get bombed by aircraft but to avoid detection altogether so shipping wouldn't be routed around their location. Not that the AI is aware of that in the game--it's just an observation.

Bill Nichols · 07-20-07, 09:34 AM

Come on, guys. Don't you remember the movie where John Wayne tied himself to the periscope shears and conned the boat at periscope depth while in Tokyo Bay?

wetwarev7 · 07-20-07, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peto

PS: The reason most skippers dove all day wasn't just so they woul;dn't get bombed by aircraft but to avoid detection altogether so shipping wouldn't be routed around their location. Not that the AI is aware of that in the game--it's just an observation.

I never thought of that.....:hmm:

Rockin Robbins · 07-20-07, 03:24 PM

Wow! What a great discussion this has turned out to be. Yup, I totally agree that we should confine ourselves to historical methods. And history seems to bear out that this is a limited tactic used in special conditions, always in calm seas, usually while engaged in an attack, usually on electrics. Unfortunately, the game has no system to keep us honest, so we're all on the honor system. The game's safety system is the very high fuel consumption while in this condition. Beware of that! The same throttle position for 12 knots on the surface gets you less than 5 flooded down.

I don't think the game is fun when you cheat anyway. I'm playing to experience the same frustrations and trials that the real skippers did. I'm going to experiment with partially flooded down states to see what it does to dive times. 25' or so should keep the deck dry but allow fast dives, but like everything else in the game, experimentation is called for. I always crash dive and catch her at periscope depth as best I can. Usually I overshoot by 10' or less, so that's not too bad.

I agree that depth control is pretty good, although if I'm descending from the surface sometimes I'll unexpectedly pop back up to the surface. If I'm going to be decks awash I like to ascend into it and have had no trim problems that way.

Anybody try the "high periscope watch" technique on the surface, ala Gene Fluckey? I messed around with it a bit last night with a convoy on the horizon and I didn't think I gained anything from the scope 20' in the air that I couldn't see from the deck. That's a shame if true.

Always looking for a historically justified edge!

Farinhir · 07-20-07, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

They certainly could do that and I'm sure some did use the diesels in that condition. [...] One thing I am sure of is that they didn't "run all over the oceans" in that condition, just so they could dive faster.

My responce to that is an excerpt from the service history of the Dutch boat, K XV.

Quote:

18 Dec 1941: K XV sails in the direction of the Discovery East Bank. The submarine transits with decks awash (airplane attacks are expected) with a speed of 11.9 kts to the South China Sea. (see 15 Dec 1941, radio message #389 1215-1402)

Source: http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/boats/boat_kxv.htm

This shows that at least the Dutch were traveling this way sometimes at least when planes were expected. This, however, does not indicate (though it could be assumed by the speed) that they were using their diesels. As far as I can tell, the running of decks awash with the diesels did not begin until the creation of the snorkel. If you can find it, you should try to read the article, "Give Credit Where Credit Is Due" by Mark C. Jones. This appears in "The Journal of Military History - Volume 69, Number 4, October 2005, pp. 987-1012". This article describes the role of the Dutch in the invention of the sub snorkel (and how the Germans took their idea from the Dutch).

Well, Have fun
~F~

07-20-07, 03:24 PM	#5
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Decks awash Wow! What a great discussion this has turned out to be. Yup, I totally agree that we should confine ourselves to historical methods. And history seems to bear out that this is a limited tactic used in special conditions, always in calm seas, usually while engaged in an attack, usually on electrics. Unfortunately, the game has no system to keep us honest, so we're all on the honor system. The game's safety system is the very high fuel consumption while in this condition. Beware of that! The same throttle position for 12 knots on the surface gets you less than 5 flooded down. I don't think the game is fun when you cheat anyway. I'm playing to experience the same frustrations and trials that the real skippers did. I'm going to experiment with partially flooded down states to see what it does to dive times. 25' or so should keep the deck dry but allow fast dives, but like everything else in the game, experimentation is called for. I always crash dive and catch her at periscope depth as best I can. Usually I overshoot by 10' or less, so that's not too bad. I agree that depth control is pretty good, although if I'm descending from the surface sometimes I'll unexpectedly pop back up to the surface. If I'm going to be decks awash I like to ascend into it and have had no trim problems that way. Anybody try the "high periscope watch" technique on the surface, ala Gene Fluckey? I messed around with it a bit last night with a convoy on the horizon and I didn't think I gained anything from the scope 20' in the air that I couldn't see from the deck. That's a shame if true. Always looking for a historically justified edge! __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

07-20-07, 09:24 AM	#2
Peto Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The details of my life are quite inconsequential Posts: 1,049 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I agree. Decks awash=loss of bouyancy=a big wave poops you and you're submerged minus one watch crew. From the reading/interviews/studying I've done I'd have to say decks awash was only used for attacks--and almost always with electrics engaged. However--it wasn't uncommon to be "a little" flooded down while on routine patrol. The tanks were typically blown completelt dry only when speed and full fuel efficiency was required such as an end-around or in transit. So you can keep a little water in your negative bouyancy tank . Even a couple feet can help when evading pesky bees. Cheers! Peto PS: The reason most skippers dove all day wasn't just so they woul;dn't get bombed by aircraft but to avoid detection altogether so shipping wouldn't be routed around their location. Not that the AI is aware of that in the game--it's just an observation.

07-20-07, 09:34 AM	#3
Bill Nichols Master of Defense Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,502 Downloads: 125 Uploads: 0	Come on, guys. Don't you remember the movie where John Wayne tied himself to the periscope shears and conned the boat at periscope depth while in Tokyo Bay? __________________ My Dangerous Waters website: