Enigma: Rising Tide (gold edition)

EAST · 07-13-07, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer

Hasnt happened that much since I was here last time. Everyone who criticizes this game gets attacked by a mob.

"Criticism is the activity of judgement or informed interpretation." - wikipedia

Someone saying something is ****e isn't criticism, usually its just trolling or bashing - like an fanboy only backwards.

The early 20th century American social critic and humorist H. L. Mencken, known for his "definitions" of terms, defined a demagogue as "one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots."

"..attacked by a mob" - demagogy

I see no mob, pretty much only me responding to trolls.

Cpt-Maxim · 07-14-07, 09:09 AM

First of all Enigma always has been and still is the result of a developer who scores the highest in grade-A class act from start to finish.. directly responding to you, in many different forums that are favorites for many different people.. coming to you rather than forcing you to go to them, or not respond to you at all.

I've been to their city and participated in sinking someone in a multi-player setup wih ERT, and was awarded fine prizes for the priviledge of taking part, and seeing the company up close, talking with them about their plans and future.. I know how close they came to providing us with more more more...

I cannot disrespect anyone who comes in here and admits that they just cant play the game due to issues out of their control, like starforce, which is due to be patched out and removed soon.. which is yet again ANOTHER instance of Tesseraction helping the community and keeping their word to solve a problem, if they complain in a respectful way asking for help.

But you trolls that I see.. I sit here and watch tiny minds and whiny lamers who need their hand held in order to just turn on their PC, much less take care of it, or learn the least little bit of problem prevention, driver upgrades, virus protection, etc, then proceeding to blame the wrong people and demand attention like spoiled brats.. The worst kind of drivel coming from their mouths rather than engaging their brains to think of the potential to invest or travel across the country to investigate the product of a company which revolutionized naval gaming and stood by their word.

You cannot find any quote anywhere, at anytime from East that says you're going to get what you imagined is the perfect game for you.. or that you did purchase the perfect combination of different name-brand parts all in one conglomeration we call a PC that will never fail your fat lazy pizza eating high on energy drinks one-button mentality.. you've been "sold" down the silicon valley by some slick 2nd hand hardware vendor..

Yet some of you jettison garbage about how you were let down in the hope that your rant is enough to sway smarter people than you to avoid "command sims" - the Tesseraction vision - or go with you to join some other bug ridden piece of flotsam.. Those of you who never designed enough code to print "hello world" are the worst..

but for the life of me, the others who want to complain about how they cant win, they cant figure it out, they think the game cheats them.. need to get a life.. So maybe you were raised around friends willing to always download some hack or cheat so you could beat or get past some level boss.. and you are pre-conditioned to think in ways requiring you to believe you are master of everything, we cant blame you for all that.. but wake up and smell the java.. before it's too late, because those kinds of workarounds are ruining you.

East, maybe there is no cure for these "trolls" but to go back to playing some game where they are guaranteed to win just so they can say "it's all about me baby!" or make them feel special for winning so easy.. or maybe other grognards wont be happy until they are in the silent service for real, placing their very life and limb at risk. They scream about how their "entertainment" isnt sim enough for them..

On the other hand you trolls could stretch your limitations, skills, by a little reading comprehension.. I know some of you are still going around basically saying they "promised me this" or "I dont want it if they cant make it my way". Start your own gaming company.. where is "your" naval game being produced right now, years later? Are you really so ahead of Tesseraction that you can stomp around forums pointing out flaws without regard to some constructive criticism, or do you believe you have some greater success you've already created than they have?

I completed all the missions from all 3 factions, and submitted many helpful posts in forums on tactics you can use.. and as thoughful and considerate as I am, I even provided nice little picture diagrams for the losers who dont put any intelligence into actual reading.. but then again, you're probably not reading this either.

Have a great day! Looking forward to the future of tesseraction...

Cpt-Maxim

GlobalExplorer · 07-15-07, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EAST

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer

Hasnt happened that much since I was here last time. Everyone who criticizes this game gets attacked by a mob.

"Criticism is the activity of judgement or informed interpretation." - wikipedia

Someone saying something is ****e isn't criticism, usually its just trolling or bashing - like an fanboy only backwards.

The early 20th century American social critic and humorist H. L. Mencken, known for his "definitions" of terms, defined a demagogue as "one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots."

"..attacked by a mob" - demagogy

I see no mob, pretty much only me responding to trolls.

People bought this game and they did not like it, so they should have a right to complain. Nobody needs to be lectured about how you think is a proper way to do it.

Imo, if this was a thread without developer participation, people would not feel so much obliged to weigh their words, and their would not be such an outrage if someone said they belong to the group who did not like the game. In fact there seems to be quite a few in this group, btw, so I encourage them not to feel ashamed and have their say.

This has turned into a thread where people discuss the game ERT, so I think both sides should have their say.

As to your next enigma game, if you stick with the graphics/athmosphere from Enigma (where you showed some considerable talent), the alternate history, and think of ways to have a realistic gameplay (like config files for the AI parameters or implementing sub stealth right out), I would have a look at it. The alternate history setting was certainly refreshing, the gameplay was not.

EAST · 07-15-07, 05:56 PM

I think you missed the point of my earlier response. Saying it sucks isn't "having your say". Saying the sub stealth sux is right on, that IS having your say.

Everyone with positive or negative input is welcome. Just don't bother if all you have to say is "Enigma sucks *ss" OR "Enigma is a worthless waste of code"; hell, thats not even an opinion, its just pointless trolling.

That was my point.

GlobalExplorer · 07-18-07, 05:27 PM

That makes sense.

Well then. For me the problem was that Enigma was a great game and an awful game at the same time. I absoltely wanted to play it for the athmosphere of being on a destroyer or submarine (lets not forget that was long before SHIII raised the bar), but I the gameplay (stealth, campaign, difficulty) - with your permission - "sucked" for me

Maybe thats why this game is so polarizing the community.

Lets also not forget that modding features were missing. May I say, it should have been "data driven" like SHIII and people would have modded it quite extensively.

EAST · 07-20-07, 11:22 AM

The modding thing has always made me laugh. Nearly everyone who complains about it not being moddable never looked into it.

Most people don't know that it is extensively moddable. Adding new ship models is even possible (we added the Iron Duke and a mini-sub after the fact for another project we were trying to do - all from a definition file), the models just needed to be submitted to us for conversion to the render engine's proprietary format. We have a full range of ship types defined in the engine. You want to add a new class: pick the type that most closely matches it and all you need is a model converted for it. These definitions are all done in a data file. We even provided a ship creation viewer for testing the ship profiles with your parameters.

Without our help the following could be changed:

All missions - this includes the ability to change pre-knowledge by the AI of a players position.
All Campaigns - maps, events, avi's etc. all are moddable in a set of definition files. (including the ability to add new ones, replace the existing ones).

text and voice reponses/tags, titles, etc.

all vehicles and weapons are skinnable (We even released a free model viewer to see your skins).

all effects are data driven and the datafiles could be changed
All sky, weather and ocean parameters are scripted and can be changed

The gui graphics could be changed, but not much because of a lot of hard coding. same with the ingame Hud.

Weapon and Ship parameters (speeds, tonnage, weapons and weapon placement, damage, audio, etc.) can all be changed.

The weapon to ship relationships could be modified also (AA guns are more dangerous to a PT boat than a Destroyer for example).

There are even tools available for creating the new missions and campaigns, unpacking and repacking our resource files, etc.

Once we finish the legal wrangling we'll release a no-cd patch that includes a new batch of missions that we created with these community created tools.

Seems that lots of simmers decided they didn't like it very early on and so didn't bother to try and modify it to do more of what they wanted: it wasn't AOD or SH(x) I guess.

GlobalExplorer · 07-20-07, 04:44 PM

I looked into it in late 2003, and all assets I found was dlls and binary data files. There was also nothing about modding in your forums. I didnt care about ERT after that, so I take that you released the tools later.

The most important thing that I missed was something akin to a "sensors.cfg", where I could have adjusted the sub stealth to my liking.

I was also looking into the mission files, at the time I thought a dynamic mission generator would have benefited ERT immensely.

TheGameKing · 12-13-07, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EAST

I think you missed the point of my earlier response. Saying it sucks isn't "having your say". Saying the sub stealth sux is right on, that IS having your say.

Everyone with positive or negative input is welcome. Just don't bother if all you have to say is "Enigma sucks *ss" OR "Enigma is a worthless waste of code"; hell, thats not even an opinion, its just pointless trolling.

That was my point.

I like the game. The alternate history is a good story line. Who would think that the UK and Japan would be allies. The voice command is really great. I have microsoft Voice commander (which I don't need to use) and Enigma runs circles around it.

I'm about 50/50 in the game. I win half the time. They win half the time. I just did the Amercian (1st) campain (have to do it again). I got every thing right down to the last sub. Wouldn't you known it. I ran out of depth charges. That was in the 1st 15 min into the game. Well for the next 2 hr (all on voice command) we would play cat and mouse because all I had left was my deck gun and aa batteries. He would dissapear from the scope and I would shut my engines off (he was doing the same) Then he dame well surfaced right in front of me and let me have it with a torpedo. And I let him have it with the deck gun. We where both hurting pretty good (I had > < this much hull intergrty left) . I finally left the game and will have to do the campain again.

Thanks

TheGameKing

P.S. If your're wondering about my name it's not because I play a lot of games. It's because I have a lot of games. I collect games. 700+ and counting.

EAST · 12-13-07, 03:53 PM

The update removes the starforce requirements as well as the "original cd in the drive) requirements. We're having good success with the patched Enigma running on Vista.

swellfella · 01-08-08, 01:19 PM

Just want to get my coin in here. Ultimately, as has been said over and over, personal choice is what drives our tastes and desires in the realm of all pleasure (to coin a phrase). A guy who lives too much for my own well being in the land of near nod--my imagination--who simply cannot get enough of the notion of saltwater, high seas, and cracking gulls, Rising Tide is the most immersive, spell-binding, virtual reality gaming experience I've lived in to date. The Graphics, the top of list of hypnotic enducing features for me, are simply...spell-binding (incidentally, any version other than Int. Gold, [Black-label], I find cartoonish, and, simply will not play. Peroid.] The mood, music, sound, and genius of ship design and gameplay, pull me in, hour upon hour. I have two copies, a backup in case of catastrophe (sp), and am waiting as gleeful as a child for the update (and am willing to send in another 10 spot if it would hurry things). You don't like it. I don't understand. But then I don't have too. Neither do you have to understand my devotion to The Tide. After all, I can't even swim.

nvrsummer2 · 02-20-09, 03:51 PM

I just tried Enigma for the first time and was looking around for mods when I came upon this thread.

Some of you guys are real bastards!! Instead of badmouthing this game and passing on your negativity to others. Think about the consequences: Get this game swept under the rug and the game you were hoping for will never get made.

If you paid for it and dont like it, thats fine. But you should do your research before you drop cash blindly hoping for the 'Perfect Game' you want. Maybe try a demo or youtube ingame footage.
I for one passed on this game along time ago and am kinda bummed I did. Its no SH3 or 4 but it never was trying to be. I think thats what everyone goes in thinking when they play this one and are disappointed.

This game leaves alot to be desired, but whos to say this isnt the seed that was planted for the big perfect naval sim were all hoping for. Someone will see that appeal for a big budget surface/sub sim game. After all, look at how well SH has done over the years and the false hope that was sowed with destroyer command. If UBI would take from SH series and combine with some surface ships= NIRVANA. I think it would sell well. And were not talking tons of ships. Most of us would be quite happy with one or two highly detailed destroyers from axis/allies. And maybe some PT action.

We should show how much we really want a game like this instead of demoralizing the people who are out there trying!!!!

Whats the status on ERT2 or expansions?? Anything else comparable on the horizon?

Deamon · 02-26-09, 04:25 AM

Holly crab, how much lamentation here

Quote:

Originally Posted by swellfella

A guy who lives too much for my own well being in the land of near nod--my imagination--who simply cannot get enough of the notion of saltwater, high seas, and cracking gulls, Rising Tide is the most immersive, spell-binding, virtual reality gaming experience I've lived in to date. The Graphics, the top of list of hypnotic enducing features for me, are simply...spell-binding (incidentally, any version other than Int. Gold, [Black-label], I find cartoonish, and, simply will not play. Peroid.] The mood, music, sound, and genius of ship design and gameplay, pull me in, hour upon hour. I have two copies, a backup in case of catastrophe (sp), and am waiting as gleeful as a child for the update (and am willing to send in another 10 spot if it would hurry things). You don't like it. I don't understand. But then I don't have too. Neither do you have to understand my devotion to The Tide. After all, I can't even swim.

Personally I guess I am one of the guys who runs away screaming when a game just remotely smells arcadish. So I passed on ERT. However I have tried one of the early demos and the poential was immediately tangible. This was the first game where I had this distinct feeling of being trapped on a small shell, where the sea had this intimidating feeling, reminding you how much your life depends on that small boat. The immersion was great! I especially liked the degree of control that you had over the ship, with seperate thrust control and such where you could aid the turn.

I guess I should give it another try. Is it still in the shelf somewhere ? Without starforce maybe ?

@nvrsummer2:

Well said, but I just wish TAG would have went straight ahead to create a SHIII instead. Cause companies go out of business regularly and you never know if there would be a second chance. Personally I learned that it is better not to hope too much for things getting better. I made just too many bad experiences with that and many others just as well, so people will rather resort to badmouthing. It's hard to accept that your wish is not going to fulfill itself.

I can certainly understand that many people are upset about ERT, it has just to much potential to be wasted for an arcade sim, now that is inciting, at least for the hard core player. I think nothing can anger a hard core simer more than a game with a great potential for a hard core sim, in that he has put his hopes and expectations in to, that is then being "wasted" for something rather arcadish.

But on the other hand there are of course a lot of people who like it because it is what it is. I guess you cannot satisfy everyone.

If TAG had the intention to go into a more hard core direction later, like SHIII then they maybe should have communicate this to the audience unmisstakeble and early on. I think all the badmouthing is just their way to try to move TAG to make a hard core sim or it is just retaliation for the missed opportunity. Since a good hardcore sim was overdue since a long time, naturally many players have put their hope into ERT that didn't fullfiled itself and then they went nuts.

@EAST:
Thanks for the clarification EAST!

This is so unfortunate. You guys would have deserved a better faith than this!

But how does it continue for you guys now ? Do you want to pull out another project ? Is D6 still going ?

07-14-07, 09:09 AM	#2
Cpt-Maxim Electrician's Mate Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Great Lakes Area - Ohio Posts: 131 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	First of all Enigma always has been and still is the result of a developer who scores the highest in grade-A class act from start to finish.. directly responding to you, in many different forums that are favorites for many different people.. coming to you rather than forcing you to go to them, or not respond to you at all. I've been to their city and participated in sinking someone in a multi-player setup wih ERT, and was awarded fine prizes for the priviledge of taking part, and seeing the company up close, talking with them about their plans and future.. I know how close they came to providing us with more more more... I cannot disrespect anyone who comes in here and admits that they just cant play the game due to issues out of their control, like starforce, which is due to be patched out and removed soon.. which is yet again ANOTHER instance of Tesseraction helping the community and keeping their word to solve a problem, if they complain in a respectful way asking for help. But you trolls that I see.. I sit here and watch tiny minds and whiny lamers who need their hand held in order to just turn on their PC, much less take care of it, or learn the least little bit of problem prevention, driver upgrades, virus protection, etc, then proceeding to blame the wrong people and demand attention like spoiled brats.. The worst kind of drivel coming from their mouths rather than engaging their brains to think of the potential to invest or travel across the country to investigate the product of a company which revolutionized naval gaming and stood by their word. You cannot find any quote anywhere, at anytime from East that says you're going to get what you imagined is the perfect game for you.. or that you did purchase the perfect combination of different name-brand parts all in one conglomeration we call a PC that will never fail your fat lazy pizza eating high on energy drinks one-button mentality.. you've been "sold" down the silicon valley by some slick 2nd hand hardware vendor.. Yet some of you jettison garbage about how you were let down in the hope that your rant is enough to sway smarter people than you to avoid "command sims" - the Tesseraction vision - or go with you to join some other bug ridden piece of flotsam.. Those of you who never designed enough code to print "hello world" are the worst.. but for the life of me, the others who want to complain about how they cant win, they cant figure it out, they think the game cheats them.. need to get a life.. So maybe you were raised around friends willing to always download some hack or cheat so you could beat or get past some level boss.. and you are pre-conditioned to think in ways requiring you to believe you are master of everything, we cant blame you for all that.. but wake up and smell the java.. before it's too late, because those kinds of workarounds are ruining you. East, maybe there is no cure for these "trolls" but to go back to playing some game where they are guaranteed to win just so they can say "it's all about me baby!" or make them feel special for winning so easy.. or maybe other grognards wont be happy until they are in the silent service for real, placing their very life and limb at risk. They scream about how their "entertainment" isnt sim enough for them.. On the other hand you trolls could stretch your limitations, skills, by a little reading comprehension.. I know some of you are still going around basically saying they "promised me this" or "I dont want it if they cant make it my way". Start your own gaming company.. where is "your" naval game being produced right now, years later? Are you really so ahead of Tesseraction that you can stomp around forums pointing out flaws without regard to some constructive criticism, or do you believe you have some greater success you've already created than they have? I completed all the missions from all 3 factions, and submitted many helpful posts in forums on tactics you can use.. and as thoughful and considerate as I am, I even provided nice little picture diagrams for the losers who dont put any intelligence into actual reading.. but then again, you're probably not reading this either. Have a great day! Looking forward to the future of tesseraction... Cpt-Maxim __________________ You may find me on one of these teamspeak servers: Subsim.com - subsim.teamspeak3.com WWII Battleground Europe, Allied, - ts.wwiionline.com:9988 Elite Dangerous, Gamers Cove - 82.21.87.49

07-15-07, 05:56 PM	#4
EAST Sparky Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Eugene, OR. USA Posts: 153 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I think you missed the point of my earlier response. Saying it sucks isn't "having your say". Saying the sub stealth sux is right on, that IS having your say. Everyone with positive or negative input is welcome. Just don't bother if all you have to say is "Enigma sucks *ss" OR "Enigma is a worthless waste of code"; hell, thats not even an opinion, its just pointless trolling. That was my point. __________________ ENIGMA R.I.P.

07-18-07, 05:27 PM	#5
GlobalExplorer Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Berlin Posts: 2,015 Downloads: 165 Uploads: 0	That makes sense. Well then. For me the problem was that Enigma was a great game and an awful game at the same time. I absoltely wanted to play it for the athmosphere of being on a destroyer or submarine (lets not forget that was long before SHIII raised the bar), but I the gameplay (stealth, campaign, difficulty) - with your permission - "sucked" for me Maybe thats why this game is so polarizing the community. Lets also not forget that modding features were missing. May I say, it should have been "data driven" like SHIII and people would have modded it quite extensively. __________________

07-20-07, 11:22 AM	#6
EAST Sparky Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Eugene, OR. USA Posts: 153 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The modding thing has always made me laugh. Nearly everyone who complains about it not being moddable never looked into it. Most people don't know that it is extensively moddable. Adding new ship models is even possible (we added the Iron Duke and a mini-sub after the fact for another project we were trying to do - all from a definition file), the models just needed to be submitted to us for conversion to the render engine's proprietary format. We have a full range of ship types defined in the engine. You want to add a new class: pick the type that most closely matches it and all you need is a model converted for it. These definitions are all done in a data file. We even provided a ship creation viewer for testing the ship profiles with your parameters. Without our help the following could be changed: All missions - this includes the ability to change pre-knowledge by the AI of a players position. All Campaigns - maps, events, avi's etc. all are moddable in a set of definition files. (including the ability to add new ones, replace the existing ones). text and voice reponses/tags, titles, etc. all vehicles and weapons are skinnable (We even released a free model viewer to see your skins). all effects are data driven and the datafiles could be changed All sky, weather and ocean parameters are scripted and can be changed The gui graphics could be changed, but not much because of a lot of hard coding. same with the ingame Hud. Weapon and Ship parameters (speeds, tonnage, weapons and weapon placement, damage, audio, etc.) can all be changed. The weapon to ship relationships could be modified also (AA guns are more dangerous to a PT boat than a Destroyer for example). There are even tools available for creating the new missions and campaigns, unpacking and repacking our resource files, etc. Once we finish the legal wrangling we'll release a no-cd patch that includes a new batch of missions that we created with these community created tools. Seems that lots of simmers decided they didn't like it very early on and so didn't bother to try and modify it to do more of what they wanted: it wasn't AOD or SH(x) I guess. __________________ ENIGMA R.I.P.

07-20-07, 04:44 PM	#7
GlobalExplorer Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Berlin Posts: 2,015 Downloads: 165 Uploads: 0	I looked into it in late 2003, and all assets I found was dlls and binary data files. There was also nothing about modding in your forums. I didnt care about ERT after that, so I take that you released the tools later. The most important thing that I missed was something akin to a "sensors.cfg", where I could have adjusted the sub stealth to my liking. I was also looking into the mission files, at the time I thought a dynamic mission generator would have benefited ERT immensely. __________________

12-13-07, 03:53 PM	#9
EAST Sparky Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Eugene, OR. USA Posts: 153 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The update removes the starforce requirements as well as the "original cd in the drive) requirements. We're having good success with the patched Enigma running on Vista. __________________ ENIGMA R.I.P.

01-08-08, 01:19 PM	#10
swellfella Seaman Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: East US Posts: 31 Downloads: 465 Uploads: 0	Just want to get my coin in here. Ultimately, as has been said over and over, personal choice is what drives our tastes and desires in the realm of all pleasure (to coin a phrase). A guy who lives too much for my own well being in the land of near nod--my imagination--who simply cannot get enough of the notion of saltwater, high seas, and cracking gulls, Rising Tide is the most immersive, spell-binding, virtual reality gaming experience I've lived in to date. The Graphics, the top of list of hypnotic enducing features for me, are simply...spell-binding (incidentally, any version other than Int. Gold, [Black-label], I find cartoonish, and, simply will not play. Peroid.] The mood, music, sound, and genius of ship design and gameplay, pull me in, hour upon hour. I have two copies, a backup in case of catastrophe (sp), and am waiting as gleeful as a child for the update (and am willing to send in another 10 spot if it would hurry things). You don't like it. I don't understand. But then I don't have too. Neither do you have to understand my devotion to The Tide. After all, I can't even swim. __________________ This shark, swallow you whole; No shakin', no tenderisin', down you go. -Quint

02-20-09, 03:51 PM	#11
nvrsummer2 Watch Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 17 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	I just tried Enigma for the first time and was looking around for mods when I came upon this thread. Some of you guys are real bastards!! Instead of badmouthing this game and passing on your negativity to others. Think about the consequences: Get this game swept under the rug and the game you were hoping for will never get made. If you paid for it and dont like it, thats fine. But you should do your research before you drop cash blindly hoping for the 'Perfect Game' you want. Maybe try a demo or youtube ingame footage. I for one passed on this game along time ago and am kinda bummed I did. Its no SH3 or 4 but it never was trying to be. I think thats what everyone goes in thinking when they play this one and are disappointed. This game leaves alot to be desired, but whos to say this isnt the seed that was planted for the big perfect naval sim were all hoping for. Someone will see that appeal for a big budget surface/sub sim game. After all, look at how well SH has done over the years and the false hope that was sowed with destroyer command. If UBI would take from SH series and combine with some surface ships= NIRVANA. I think it would sell well. And were not talking tons of ships. Most of us would be quite happy with one or two highly detailed destroyers from axis/allies. And maybe some PT action. We should show how much we really want a game like this instead of demoralizing the people who are out there trying!!!! Whats the status on ERT2 or expansions?? Anything else comparable on the horizon?