Poop from the Pope

[Skybird]

He's doing his job, and as a side-effect also meets public demands:

There IS a demand for more leadership and clear definition of religious basis instead of far-leading arbitrariness and indiscriminate tolerance (people want leadership), there IS a certain ammount of demand for holding traditional masses in Latin again (the rite is what gives people a home), and there IS a very urgent need for the Christian West to speak with less diverse voices, that partially are even lacking any clear orientation at all (as should be clear with regard to Islam's challenge of Europe). One must not be Catholic to see all this.

There must be reasons why Protestantism in the past years and decades has lost attraction much faster and to a wider degree, than Catholicism. And there must be a reason why people in germany's protestantic north are less at home in their religion and seem to live in a subjectively-felt more broken spiritual health, than people in the catholic south - a regional difference that travellers, and literats and artists time and again have described in their works, since generations. One can think of church and freedom, rulership, catholicism and the pope whatever one wants: but more people in the south seem to get more satisfaction from their way of catholic religion, than people in the middle and the north. Their world seem to be more "unhurt". Especially the rite and celebration in Catholicism is what makes it attractive for many. And the lack of this (the lack of clear structure, so to speak) is what has turned many people away from protestantism.

Let noone assume I say this because I'm a Catholic - I'm not, and will never be.

[micky1up]

what do ypu expect from a ex member of the hitler youth and a man who previous department in the vatican was the same that started the inqusitions

[Skybird]

Yes, all Germans are Nazis, and eating Jewish babies for breakfast is our most preferred way to start the day.

Watching this old German war movie, "Die Brücke", maybe would cure you a bit from your disease, Mickey.

From wikipedia:

Following his fourteenth birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was enrolled in the Hitler Youth — membership being legally required after December 1939 — but was an unenthusiastic member and refused to attend meetings

Ratzinger wurde 1941 mit 14 Jahren – wie alle Seminaristen seit 1939 – zwangsweise in die Hitler-Jugend aufgenommen. Nahezu alle Jugendlichen wurden zu diesem Zeitpunkt gemäß der Dienstpflicht des Gesetzes über die Hitler-Jugend (1936) in die Jugendorganisation integriert. Ein Zeitzeuge berichtete der FAZ, dass die Seminaristen für überzeugte Nazis ein rotes Tuch waren und verdächtigt wurden, Widerstand gegen das Regime zu leisten.

[micky1up]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Yes, all Germans are Nazis, and eating Jewish babies for breakfast is our most preferred way to start the day.

Watching this old German war movie, "Die Brücke", maybe would cure you a bit from your disease, Mickey.

From wikipedia:

Following his fourteenth birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was enrolled in the Hitler Youth — membership being legally required after December 1939 — but was an unenthusiastic member and refused to attend meetings

Ratzinger wurde 1941 mit 14 Jahren – wie alle Seminaristen seit 1939 – zwangsweise in die Hitler-Jugend aufgenommen. Nahezu alle Jugendlichen wurden zu diesem Zeitpunkt gemäß der Dienstpflicht des Gesetzes über die Hitler-Jugend (1936) in die Jugendorganisation integriert. Ein Zeitzeuge berichtete der FAZ, dass die Seminaristen für überzeugte Nazis ein rotes Tuch waren und verdächtigt wurden, Widerstand gegen das Regime zu leisten.

well explian this massive insult to every other church on the planet disgusting is what i think it is



and the excuse" i was only doing as told" was used numerous time to condone the actions of evil



i think he should get his own house in order before slagging others child abuse and handing out money to buy back condoms in africa who are trying to control the population lvls to stave of famine and HIV whilst his organisation sits on countless billions the poor of the world stave

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by micky1up

and the excuse" i was only doing as told" was used numerous time to condone the actions of evil

That boy was 14 (FOURTEEN! That is a 1 (one) followed by a 4 (four) years old when the laws left him no other choice than to join the HJ. I'm sure superheroic kid named Mickey would have taken the opportunity to overthrow the whole regime at that age of 14. Or what?

What's more, read that quote that he was not enthusiastic about it, boycotted courses, and that the seminarians (?) were highly suspicious to the Nazi for not being in line and even working against the Nazis.

If you criticise somebody, okay, there certainly is a lot in Catholicism, and the church, one can disagree with - but do not tell lies about somebody in an effort to let him look bad and denounce him just simply because you wish him to look bad. Stick with the truth, that is good enough to convince people - if your argument is strong enough. If you need to denounce and to discredit and to mud-throw and to tell lies, than you have nothing worthy to say. Ratzinger is an intellectual. Plenty of opportunities for you to tell people for what arguments of your own you do not agree with him on a given issue.

I just read his latest book. I do not agree with much he says, and already on his basis (taking the four gospels literally that is) we are lightyears apart. But accepting that this is the basis on which he begins, I had to admit that from that fundament on he thinks very logical and reasonable. This is what make him predictable and transparent for me, and makes it possible to understand his behavior on the basis of his motives. I do not expect him to lead beyond the ground on which he stands, but see him acting and arguing consequently and in conformity with what he states his fudnament is. In so far he is trustworthy, and reasonable, and that is what I respect. Sure, if I would demand him to ignore his office, act in the interest of other faiths, organizations, and violating the rules of his own organization, I necessarily must become upset about him not meeting my expectations. but he is no arbitrary figure, he is a pope, which is a clearly defined job with clearly defined obligations, policies and demands. So if I am upset about him not leaving all that behind him, my anger is not because he is a problem, but because I have a problem. It is my fault, then.

So, stop telling stupid lies about the man. Feel free to give arguments why you challenge the church's views and policies. The man is not the issue - the office, and what it means, is.

Would you like it if I take the freedom - according to your behavior's logic - to label you as a My Lai-sympathizer - just because you have done nothing to stop it? And I think you maybe have been even older when that massacre happened, than Ratzinger was when he was ordered to join the HJ?! My God, Mickey, how could you let that happen. Have you only been told to do so, and followed somebody's orders not to intervene?

[micky1up]

Originally Posted by Skybird

That boy was 14 (FOURTEEN! That is a 1 (one) followed by a 4 (four) years old when the laws left him no other choice than to join the HJ. I'm sure superheroic kid named Mickey would have taken the opportunity to overthrow the whole regime at that age of 14. Or what?

What's more, read that quote that he was not enthusiastic about it, boycotted courses, and that the seminarians (?) were highly suspicious to the Nazi for not being in line and even working against the Nazis.

If you criticise somebody, okay, there certainly is a lot in Catholicism, and the church, one can disagree with - but do not tell lies about somebody in an effort to let him look bad and denounce him just simply because you wish him to look bad. Stick with the truth, that is good enough to convince people - if your argument is strong enough. If you need to denounce and to discredit and to mud-throw and to tell lies, than you have nothing worthy to say. Ratzinger is an intellectual. Plenty of opportunities for you to tell people for what arguments of your own you do not agree with him on a given issue.

I just read his latest book. I do not agree with much he says, and already on his basis (taking the four gospels literally that is) we are lightyears apart. But accepting that this is the basis on which he begins, I had to admit that from that fundament on he thinks very logical and reasonable. This is what make him predictable and transparent for me, and makes it possible to understand his behavior on the basis of his motives. I do not expect him to lead beyond the ground on which he stands, but see him acting and arguing consequently and in conformity with what he states his fudnament is. In so far he is trustworthy, and reasonable, and that is what I respect. Sure, if I would demand him to ignore his office, act in the interest of other faiths, organizations, and violating the rules of his own organization, I necessarily must become upset about him not meeting my expectations. but he is no arbitrary figure, he is a pope, which is a clearly defined job with clearly defined obligations, policies and demands. So if I am upset about him not leaving all that behind him, my anger is not because he is a problem, but because I have a problem. It is my fault, then.

So, stop telling stupid lies about the man. Feel free to give arguments why you challenge the church's views and policies. The man is not the issue - the office, and what it means, is.

Would you like it if I take the freedom - according to your behavior's logic - to label you as a My Lai-sympathizer - just because you have done nothing to stop it? And I think you maybe have been even older when that massacre happened, than Ratzinger was when he was ordered to join the HJ?! My God, Mickey, how could you let that happen. Have you only been told to do so, and followed somebody's orders not to intervene?

p.s SKYBIRD was he or was he not a member of the hitler youth ?


i never said he gassed 6 million jews did i ?



all i said was that the excuse of we had no choice and i was doing as told has been used many a time to detract away from guilt and responsibility if more people had stood up to her hitler maybe he wouldnt have got to power in the first place



and yes if the average foot soldier had stood up to those in charge maybe that mai li massacre wouldnt have happend


all evil needs to spread is for decent people to do nothing but then again the pope at that time failed to denounce the nazi's that says it all


do you reject the idea that people power can affect political change? the recent spanish elections after the madrid bombings the populas changed the goverment you just cant bury your head in the sand all the time the masses or mob (roman term) can be very powerfull but individuals must be brave to make that happen and it can happen and it has happend in the past


what a very bleak world your picture paints SKYBIRD one man can make a differnce

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by micky1up

do you reject the idea that people power can affect political change?

What I reject here is the attempt to discredit the current office holder in the Vatican by giving the impression that he has been a Nazi: when you said "What do you expect from an ex member of the Hitler youth". That's the message from what you said, and if you meant something different, choose your words more carefully next time.

[Iron Budokan]

I remember when John Paul II died. I was attending a science ficiton convention in Memphis that weeked as a guest author. If I hadn't been somewhat busy with panels and meeting other writers and fans I would have sobbed the entire weekend. As it was I just cried several times over that Saturday and Sunday.

John Paul II was a good Pope. He reached out to the Jewish people and the Muslims. This guy we have now is a lunatic. Even his brother said he didn't deserve to be Pope. That should tell you something right there.....

[geetrue]

I prayed for years for the Catholic church and the abuses I have seen, from praying to saints instead of to God, worship of statues, etc.

In hindsight I was telling God what to do, because one day, about three years ago, I was praying and in the middle of the prayer I just stopped and asked God, "What prayer will you hear for the Catholic church"?

I never got an answer to prayer that fast in all of my life ... the Lord said, "Pray for the Catholic church to stop thinking that they are the only church going to heaven".

That's when I realized that I had been telling God what to do with His church. I have been praying the prayer He gave me ever since. This public admission of the Catholic church by the head of the Catholic church will now have millions of people praying the same prayer that Jesus gave me to pray.

I have met many people in the Catholic faith who don't think they are the only people going to heaven.

Saved/born again and on your way to heaven is because you believe Jesus paid for all of your sins on the cross at Calvary ... It's as simple as that.