Germany bans Cruise film shoot

[August]

Originally Posted by Heibges

He is not being denied the right to work, nor is he being denied the right to enter Germany. The production company will just have to shoot at a different location.

Maybe so, or he will be replaced by a more politically correct actor, which would then be a defacto denial of the right to work. But again it's their country.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by August

Maybe so, or he will be replaced by a more politically correct actor, which would then be a defacto denial of the right to work. But again it's their country.

Yes, a denial to work, legally, and meeting the laws as well as the constitution. I am sure it is exactly the same in you country, when the specified conditions are met.

[Smaragdadler]

Originally Posted by August

I didn't say I wanted to join them.

The question I was addressing is whether a person from a politically unpopular (but not illegal) group or religion should be denied the right to work in a private sector job.

It doesn't have to be Scientologists, any unpopular social or ethnic group will do. For example substitute the word "Scientologist" for "Communist" in any of the anti diatrabes in this thread including yours above and they look like Joe MaCarthy speeches.

But like i've said 3-4 times already, It's the Germans country, therefore a German decision.

In a way I even agree with you. But you have always to look too, who is the "victim". In this case of Scientology it is clearly the wolf, who claims to be the sheep hunted by wolves.

The best method against Scientology may be to lay open their sources. The roots of Scientology are clearly theosophic/occult, they paint themself as an "religion" but are a criminal totalitarian "business firm" who sells "spirituality". Their only true aim is money&power. If anyone thinks he can channel (brainwash) himself to an "Übermensch" , he can try so for his own in his own room and for free, searching the internet for the material. No need to pay even a single penny over the online-fee... The real problem with such people starts only, when they begin networking and try to inflitrate the public...

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Yes, a denial to work, legally, and meeting the laws as well as the constitution. I am sure it is exactly the same in you country, when the specified conditions are met.

Look you don't have to justify it to me Sky. If you want to take all your scientologists, line them up against the wall and shoot them that's your business.

[Smaragdadler]

That's just polemic August. 'Germany' may be overreacting when "this" topic comes up, but it's more because "we" have a special national expirience with "such" selfbacked 'brothers&sisters' (or better 'fraters&sorrors').
And yes, I know my conspiracy theory. Most of the big german politicans are freemasons as every where else. But that explains the (partly) overreaction in Germany, because 'they' have the expierience what happens, when some other guys take over the rudder...
So the problem is not that Germany always tends to be totalitarian. No, they just want to be everytime "worldmasters"...this time in total democracy.

[Skybird]

were the Italians and French also overreacting when they started criminal lawsuits against Scientology as I reported some postings above?

Originally Posted by Skybird

(...) charges of money laundering, tax fraud, a multitude of violations of economic laws, abuse of mentally deranged people, blackmailing, coercion, medical practicing without legal permission (Aprobation), violation of "Fürsorgepflicht", promoting child labour, torture, violation of laws regulating the working conditions of employees (employees were working until total physical exhaustion and complete breakdown)

I am sure this would be persecuted in America as well. Even if August thinks of such accusations as "denial to work" only. why so shy, august - there is nothing wrong in admitting that you have a police and an FBI, both doing their job if somebody would brake the laws, or violate the american constitution.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I am sure this would be persecuted in America as well.

Prosecuted.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by August

I didn't say I wanted to join them.

The question I was addressing is whether a person from a politically unpopular (but not illegal) group or religion should be denied the right to work in a private sector job.

It doesn't have to be Scientologists, any unpopular social or ethnic group will do. For example substitute the word "Scientologist" for "Communist" in any of the anti diatrabes in this thread including yours above and they look like Joe MaCarthy speeches.

But like i've said 3-4 times already, It's the Germans country, therefore a German decision.

You know August, they are an illegal group. That is the problem. Here are only about 300 court documents to back that up, but there are thousands more:

http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/docs/index.htm

-S

[Heibges]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

You know August, they are an illegal group. That is the problem. Here are only about 300 court documents to back that up, but there are thousands more:

http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/docs/index.htm

-S

I believe they are recongnized by the IRS as a church, though?

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Heibges

I believe they are recongnized by the IRS as a church, though?

Of course they are. If you created a cult for profit, why would you want to pay the government taxes? Simply labeling yourself as a church gets you out of taxes, and tricks converts into beleiving they are part of something important!

[Heibges]

It took them a long time to get IRS status I believe. The bone of contention was that they asked for so much money from followers. Their response was that other religions have been around for a long time, and have had the chance to accumulate wealth.

[August]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Of course they are. If you created a cult for profit, why would you want to pay the government taxes? Simply labeling yourself as a church gets you out of taxes, and tricks converts into beleiving they are part of something important!

So if they are, as you claim, "an illegal group" then how come the Government allows them to operate openly and continue their tax shelter status?

I hardly care whether they are or note but maybe they're not as "illegal" as you and others are claiming?

[Heibges]

Originally Posted by August

So if they are, as you claim, "an illegal group" then how come the Government allows them to operate openly and continue their tax shelter status?

I hardly care whether they are or note but maybe they're not as "illegal" as you and others are claiming?

But in all fairness, it took the IRS a long time to send Rev Moon to jail for tax fraud, and after that his cult fell apart too.

[SUBMAN1]

Here is one case that kind of got away from them:

http://www.lisamcpherson.org/


ANother oops - probably related to their use of torture and brainwashing of their converts. Apparently this guy didn't take too well to reprogramming and murdered his whole family:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/JeremyPerkins/

I guess the question is, how many have to be murdered before this cult is shut down? Here are quite a few more:

http://www.whyaretheydead.net/

This site has some good affidavits on it too - http://www.whyaretheydead.net/krasel/

-S

[geetrue]

A church is no different from any other non-profit ministry to the IRS. It's called a 501c3 application. Muslim's in America raise money with it, a rich man in Wyoming I believe has put all of his money, millions of dollars into into it and claims that his family is the board members. Non profit doesn't mean you can't make a profit, it just means you have to report everything.

You have to dot your eye's and cross your tee's to obtain a non-profit status and to maintain one too. I worked as a volunteer for a non-profit ministry for three years. They would just hand me a couple of hundred dollars every once in a while, because they liked me.

Then I worked for the Republican Party in fund raising once too, and all they paid me was minium wage ... If you can't beat them join them. 501 c 3's that is.