magnetic?! - Page 2

kv29 · 06-26-07, 10:31 AM

uuupss, I meant a 2 meters radius would not be bad. What was the magnetic detection radius? In real life I mean.

Sailor Steve · 06-26-07, 10:39 AM

I'm not sure about the actual sensitivity radius, but that's one of the problems with any such device: if it's not sensitive enough you get non-detonations; if it's too sensitive you get way too many pre-dets.

WernerSobe · 06-26-07, 11:38 AM

just use contact detonators and forget the magnetic ones. They work sometimes but at most they dont. Even when they work they are not modeled correctly. They are not doing much more damage as they should. Ive been reading that real magnetic torpedoes are best set 5-7 meters below the keel and not just 2 or 3 feets.

SteamWake · 06-26-07, 01:55 PM

What confuses me is that I see two settings

1.) Contact

2.) Contact/Influence

I almost always use setting no 2 with good results. In other words I dont bother with changing it. If it impacts it detonates.

Ive even pulled off a couple of 'beneath the keel' detonations.

Im very confused about all this discussion.

switch.dota · 06-26-07, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

I almost always use setting no 2 with good results. In other words I dont bother with changing it. If it impacts it detonates.

Ive even pulled off a couple of 'beneath the keel' detonations.

Im very confused about all this discussion.

Same here. All the threads on this issue that I found were just as confusing.

kv29 · 06-26-07, 02:47 PM

what a mess:

http://diodon349.com/Torpedoman/Torp...6_exploder.htm

nomad_delta · 06-26-07, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WernerSobe

just use contact detonators and forget the magnetic ones. They work sometimes but at most they dont. Even when they work they are not modeled correctly. They are not doing much more damage as they should. Ive been reading that real magnetic torpedoes are best set 5-7 meters below the keel and not just 2 or 3 feets.

The in-game testing I've done (someone linked my previous thread where I posted my testing results) indicates that magnetic detonators are not working at all. In my testing I systematically fired volleys of torpedos at a known target (Mogami Cruiser in the training mission) incrementing the depth setting downward 1 foot at a time to determine the maximum depth the torpedos would detonate.

I found that a volley of magnetic torpedos set to run just 1 foot below the depth at which a volley of contact torpedos scored 4/4 hits would consistently miss, every single time.

I'm planning on doing a lot more testing of all of this once patch 1.3 is out, but for now I think it's safe to say that the magnetic influence torpedos don't work as intended. I recommend using 'contact' settings and sparing yourself the premature detonations, since there's nothing to be gained by using magnetic at the moment.

nomad_delta

kv29 · 06-26-07, 02:55 PM

nomad, have you tried other models than mark14?

Btw, is it possible to choose other torpedos in the mission editor??

nomad_delta · 06-26-07, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kv29

nomad, have you tried other models than mark14?

Btw, is it possible to choose other torpedos in the mission editor??

Not yet, but that's a good idea, since I've heard there was some concern about the game possibly ignoring the SIM values for Mark10 torpedos and treating them like Mark14's. I'll put that on my list for my next round of post-1.3 torpedo testing.

Not sure about selecting torpedos in the mission editor since I was only interested in Mark14 torpedos at the time.

nomad_delta

kv29 · 06-26-07, 04:13 PM

Coming back...
Tried mk10, 14, 18 & 23 at a large ferighter. They ALL passed right beneath the keel (almost touching it) without detonating.

In fact one of them actually touched the hull, and nothing..... something is terribly wrong with the drafts....

PepsiCan · 06-26-07, 04:45 PM

There might be a few issues in the game that confuse things further:

- Some of the ships in stock SH4 have the wrong measures, including an incorrect draft
- Time plays a part. In real life, all Mk14 issues were fixed by 1944. Testing before that date probably causes the game to simulate the real life bugs with the contact detonator and the depth measurement device in the torpedo (up to okt 1942 Mk14s ran upto 15 ft too deep because of a calibration issue)
- There is a claim (which triggered a lot of testing) that the switch in SH4 is actually reversed. So you think you select "Contact Influence", but the game setting is actually "Contact".

So, any testing needs to be conducted in 1944, with ship measures adjusted (or selected a ship that is unaffected). I'm not saying that that wasn't done up to now. I am merely offering some advice to anyone who wants to test this further.

kv29 · 06-26-07, 05:16 PM

tested all the above on late 44, both contact & incluence only. Ships measures corrected by a mod.
Even tweaked the torpedo proximity with mini-tweaker. Default was 2 (feet, meters, or what?) so modded it to 10, 25 and even 50. No good.

I tracked all torpedos with the external cam. Depth is ok.
Influence is not implemented in any way. The best and only way to simulate a keel shot (on contact) is setting the depth - 2 feets acording to the draft value, but before 43´ with all the torpedo depth problems is risky.
I give up.

nomad_delta · 06-26-07, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kv29

tested all the above on late 44, both contact & incluence only. Ships measures corrected by a mod.
Even tweaked the torpedo proximity with mini-tweaker. Default was 2 (feet, meters, or what?) so modded it to 10, 25 and even 50. No good.

I tracked all torpedos with the external cam. Depth is ok.
Influence is not implemented in any way. The best and only way to simulate a keel shot (on contact) is setting the depth - 2 feets acording to the draft value, but before 43´ with all the torpedo depth problems is risky.
I give up.

Oy. That's disconcerting that modifying the torpedo proximity didn't have any effect on the influence setting. I was kinda hoping we might be able to fix the magnetics with a mod like that.

Thanks for the attempt, though, 'cause now we know a little more than we did before.

I sure hope the devs are doing something to address this in 1.3 -- it really bugs me that an entire portion of the game (torpedo depth) is basically missing because none of the settings work properly and most of the data is wrong. What's worse is it sounds like we can't even fix this with mods since the game is ignoring the relevant values in the torpedo SIM files.

nomad_delta

Phantom Mark · 06-27-07, 04:32 AM

After reading this post I did some testing on this topic.

I have tried Mk23's and Mk14's on both contact and magnetic, had pretty much the same results already posted here, on both settings I had torps litraly skimming the bottom of the hull of a CV, all passed directly underneath with no explosion no matter what the settings were. The only time I could score a hit was by running the depth slightly more shallow so it actually strikes the hull.

SteamWake · 06-27-07, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom Mark

After reading this post I did some testing on this topic.

I have tried Mk23's and Mk14's on both contact and magnetic, had pretty much the same results already posted here, on both settings I had torps litraly skimming the bottom of the hull of a CV, all passed directly underneath with no explosion no matter what the settings were. The only time I could score a hit was by running the depth slightly more shallow so it actually strikes the hull.

Again... I have personally succsessfully used magnetic detonations. Then again Ive had some just keep on going.

Maybe I got lucky.

06-26-07, 10:31 AM	#16
kv29 Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 342 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	uuupss, I meant a 2 meters radius would not be bad. What was the magnetic detection radius? In real life I mean. Last edited by kv29; 06-26-07 at 10:41 AM.

06-26-07, 10:39 AM	#17
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I'm not sure about the actual sensitivity radius, but that's one of the problems with any such device: if it's not sensitive enough you get non-detonations; if it's too sensitive you get way too many pre-dets. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

06-26-07, 02:55 PM	#23
kv29 Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 342 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	nomad, have you tried other models than mark14? Btw, is it possible to choose other torpedos in the mission editor?? Last edited by kv29; 06-26-07 at 03:05 PM.

06-26-07, 04:45 PM	#26
PepsiCan Planesman Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 189 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The list of issues There might be a few issues in the game that confuse things further: - Some of the ships in stock SH4 have the wrong measures, including an incorrect draft - Time plays a part. In real life, all Mk14 issues were fixed by 1944. Testing before that date probably causes the game to simulate the real life bugs with the contact detonator and the depth measurement device in the torpedo (up to okt 1942 Mk14s ran upto 15 ft too deep because of a calibration issue) - There is a claim (which triggered a lot of testing) that the switch in SH4 is actually reversed. So you think you select "Contact Influence", but the game setting is actually "Contact". So, any testing needs to be conducted in 1944, with ship measures adjusted (or selected a ship that is unaffected). I'm not saying that that wasn't done up to now. I am merely offering some advice to anyone who wants to test this further. __________________ =================== AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 2.1Ghz 1Gb RAM MSI NVidia 6800 128MB MSI motherboard Realtek soundcard Windows XP Pro SP2 ===================

06-26-07, 11:38 AM	#18
WernerSobe Commodore Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 625 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	just use contact detonators and forget the magnetic ones. They work sometimes but at most they dont. Even when they work they are not modeled correctly. They are not doing much more damage as they should. Ive been reading that real magnetic torpedoes are best set 5-7 meters below the keel and not just 2 or 3 feets.

06-26-07, 01:55 PM	#19
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	What confuses me is that I see two settings 1.) Contact 2.) Contact/Influence I almost always use setting no 2 with good results. In other words I dont bother with changing it. If it impacts it detonates. Ive even pulled off a couple of 'beneath the keel' detonations. Im very confused about all this discussion.

06-26-07, 02:47 PM	#21
kv29 Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 342 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	what a mess: http://diodon349.com/Torpedoman/Torp...6_exploder.htm

06-26-07, 04:13 PM	#25
kv29 Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 342 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Coming back... Tried mk10, 14, 18 & 23 at a large ferighter. They ALL passed right beneath the keel (almost touching it) without detonating. In fact one of them actually touched the hull, and nothing..... something is terribly wrong with the drafts....

06-26-07, 05:16 PM	#27
kv29 Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 342 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	tested all the above on late 44, both contact & incluence only. Ships measures corrected by a mod. Even tweaked the torpedo proximity with mini-tweaker. Default was 2 (feet, meters, or what?) so modded it to 10, 25 and even 50. No good. I tracked all torpedos with the external cam. Depth is ok. Influence is not implemented in any way. The best and only way to simulate a keel shot (on contact) is setting the depth - 2 feets acording to the draft value, but before 43´ with all the torpedo depth problems is risky. I give up.

06-27-07, 04:32 AM	#29
Phantom Mark Bosun Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 69 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	After reading this post I did some testing on this topic. I have tried Mk23's and Mk14's on both contact and magnetic, had pretty much the same results already posted here, on both settings I had torps litraly skimming the bottom of the hull of a CV, all passed directly underneath with no explosion no matter what the settings were. The only time I could score a hit was by running the depth slightly more shallow so it actually strikes the hull.