Germany bans Cruise film shoot

[Skybird]

Second time you jump to the defence of a very dangerous totalitarian psycho-sect that has brought misery to thousands of people and only is about money, political power and economical influence, WG. They are rated as top-threats on the lists of counter-sect projects in European countries. I must wonder if you simply do not know what you are talking about - or if you are a scientologist yourself.

Religion has nothing to do with it. The scientology sect is no religion, not even close to it. It is a sect that abuses people, leads them into heavy psychic dependance, brainwashes and psychologically manipulates them, drives them towards complete self-denial and submission, psychic breakdown, financial exploitation, even suicide. It threatens and vows to hurt, injure and kill members if they leave the sect. It haunts criti9cs and apostates with psycho-terror and diffamation, for months and years. It acts by lies, defamation campaigns, mudthrowing, intimidation, deception and persuasion, and a constant bom,bardement of sues and court files. Preferred target group for harvesting are the young and the rich and influential ones, social leaders and representatives - key figures of social life, preferrably with either political power, or money. Scientology was rejected in several European countires to be accepted as a religion by highest national courts. Intelligence communities warn of them as one of the major threads to constitutional orders of social communities and nations in europe. they are under tight monitoring by intel services in several nations. In Germany, several federal countries also monitor them, and Berlin is about restarting observation again, too, since they said they want to turn the new Berlin centre, close to the governmental quarters, into one of the globally rare elite units of theirs. Some voices, mainly from the intel community, even want to simply prohibit scientology in germany - we even did not prohibit Nazi parties. Says something on the threat level they are rated at.

One either does not know a clue about scientology to defend them, or one is a member. tjhe first can be helped by starting to get informed. The second is either being a victim, or acting criminally and in an attempt to overthrow the constitutional state.

The family of Stauffenberg does not wish to see the Graf being represented by a scientologist, and does not wish their family member, which is a german icon, being abused for a PR stunt by scientology, and the defense ministry also does not want to see a key idol of German military history being linked to scientology. so, permission to shoot the film in the historical Bendlerblock has been rejected. That is all - not more, not less.

It is not about religion. If totalitarian traditions have anything to do with it - than in form of scientology itself.

German authorities have information about the sect wanting to intensify the infiltration of public offices, schools, and economy:

http://www.focus.de/politik/deutschl...aid_64326.html

The battle for Germany is considered by scientology sect to be a very important one, because germany, on the basis of it's totalitarian history, so far has been "a great opressor" to them, and strictly opposes them for very good and fundamental reasons, and more actively than many others. to breach that resistance would be a great propaganda stunt for them. the past months have seen several attempts to infiltrate and manipulate public schools and teachers, and attenpts of getting scientology thinking implemented into school books. they now said that in the future they will delete all reference to scientology from their materials by which they could be identified, so that they are not so easily to be exposed. they also want to turn the new Berlin centre, placed close to the government district, into one of their rare elite units.

If one is acting like that, one can hardly claim to be a religion.

There is a reason why I throw neonazis, islam and scientology all into the same pot. They all are offsprings of the same mind that is named TOTALITARIANISM. And that is something I am definitely allergic to.

Note that I am very critical of Stauffenberg myself.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Second time you jump to the defence of a very dangerous totalitarian psycho-sect that has brought misery to thousands of people and only is about money, political power and economical influence, WG. They are rated as top-threats on the lists of counter-sect projects in European countries. I must wonder if you simply do not know what you are talking about - or if you are a scientologist yourself.

Religion has nothing to do with it. The scientology sect is no religion, not even close to it. It is a sect that abuses people, leads them into heavy psychic dependance, brainwashes and psychologically manipulates them, drives them towards complete self-denial and submission, psychic breakdown, financial exploitation, even suicide. It threatens and vows to hurt, injure and kill members if they leave the sect. It haunts criti9cs and apostates with psycho-terror and diffamation, for months and years. It acts by lies, defamation campaigns, mudthrowing, intimidation, deception and persuasion, and a constant bom,bardement of sues and court files. Preferred target group for harvesting are the young and the rich and influential ones, social leaders and representatives - key figures of social life, preferrably with either political power, or money. Scientology was rejected in several European countires to be accepted as a religion by highest national courts. Intelligence communities warn of them as one of the major threads to constitutional orders of social communities and nations in europe. they are under tight monitoring by intel services in several nations. In Germany, several federal countries also monitor them, and Berlin is about restarting observation again, too, since they said they want to turn the new Berlin centre, close to the governmental quarters, into one of the globally rare elite units of theirs. Some voices, mainly from the intel community, even want to simply prohibit scientology in germany - we even did not prohibit Nazi parties. Says something on the threat level they are rated at.

One either does not know a clue about scientology to defend them, or one is a member. tjhe first can be helped by starting to get informed. The second is either being a victim, or acting criminally and in an attempt to overthrow the constitutional state.

The family of Stauffenberg does not wish to see the Graf being represented by a scientologist, and does not wish their family member, which is a german icon, being abused for a PR stunt by scientology, and the defense ministry also does not want to see a key idol of German military history being linked to scientology. so, permission to shoot the film in the historical Bendlerblock has been rejected. That is all - not more, not less.

It is not about religion. If totalitarian traditions have anything to do with it - than in form of scientology itself.

German authorities have information about the sect wanting to intensify the infiltration of public offices, schools, and economy:

http://www.focus.de/politik/deutschl...aid_64326.html

The battle for Germany is considered by scientology sect to be a very important one, because germany, on the basis of it's totalitarian history, so far has been "a great opressor" to them, and strictly opposes them for very good and fundamental reasons, and more actively than many others. to breach that resistance would be a great propaganda stunt for them. the past months have seen several attempts to infiltrate and manipulate public schools and teachers, and attenpts of getting scientology thinking implemented into school books. they now said that in the future they will delete all reference to scientology from their materials by which they could be identified, so that they are not so easily to be exposed.

If one is acting like that, one can hardly claim to be a religion.

Note that I am very critical of Stauffenberg myself.

I thought you placed me on your ignore list Skybird?!

That being said........OK either way.

In response to your post let me point you to an essay by Joseph Goebbels in 1941. Just too many parallels to be healthy.
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goeb1.htm

[Skybird]

I thought you placed me on your ignore list Skybird?!

Just released you this hour and already regretting it, since the first thing I read - is this.

No parallels in your document. Scientology, and the Jews as victims of a monstrous crime in the 30s and 40s, do not compare, not even close. Scientoloy is no victim - it is the attacker, and liberal democratic societies are meant to be it's prey.

More propaganda from you.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Just released you this hour and already regretting it, since the first thing I read - is this.

No parallels in your document. Scientology, and the Jews as victims of a monstrous crime in the 30s and 40s, do not compare, not even close. Scientoloy is no victim - it is the attacker, and liberal democratic societies are meant to be it's prey.

More propaganda from you.

The essay is accusing the Jews of what you accuse Scientology of being. Insert Scientology where you see Jew and where you see 'the German Reich' insert 'German authorities' and there you have it.

PS
Like I stated its your country. But which religion will the German authorities be going after next?

EDIT: Just so I have it right, you don't like the Poles, you don't like the Scientologists; my question is when in the anschluss? Like I stated unhealthy.

[Reaves]

Is it worse then translating tablets out of a hat though?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Reaves

Is it worse then translating tablets out of a hat though?

What private people believe, is not my interest. They can beliece as silly things as they want.
The acting of the organisation, it's psychological manipulation and control it uses on it's members, the demand for totalitarian control of economy and politics, is the danger, the disgusting thing,

Lieing, intimidating, mudthrowing, defamation, threatening by which this organization tries to push it's agenda, their attempt to secure beahheads in public education from where they can increase their possebility to even indoctrinate the youngest of the young is what is revealing it's true nature.

That they now start to hide their own identity even in their own material, is what speaks against them to reveal a true relgious truth to the world. It is about overcoming the states defense mechanism instead, and to betray and trap the private person that they have set their target sights on.

The aiming for money-money-money and the design of the hierarchical structure that is aiming of stripping people of their private money more and more in order to give them access to higher " levels of reveleations", and in order to make them work more hard to bring up the money for these paymenets to scientology is illustrating all one need to know in important things about this cynical sect that is managed like an economical empire.

and that they aggressively and cold-heartedly favour the strong one exlcusively, and to not know about the weakness of man that we all carry in us, too, shows how brutal and inhumane they really are. There is no love for thy next in that, and no human warmth. but every year many, many broken souls with ruined existences and major psychological problems. No wonder that scientology fights so bitterly against psychiatry - it reveals the real ammount of damage and inhumanity commited by this sect. What was it with mother and baby not allowed to most naturally cry when giving birth...?

Did Jesus act like this? Is it common practice in Judaism? Animism? Shinto? Has Buddha told people to treat other people in this way? Hinduism? Rural Taoism? Can anyone show up with an example of a widely accepted religion (in the strict meaning of the word) that compares to scientology? Indian's culture? Scandinavia mythology? Celtic culture? Anything...?

The movie "Getacca", despite the genetical implications, reminded me very much of scientology, too. Maybe some of you would accept to live in such a society. But I would search to destroy it. It's for robots, not man.

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by waste gate

EDIT: Just so I have it right, you don't like the Poles, you don't like the Scientologists; my question is when in the anschluss? Like I stated unhealthy.

There is a twisted and inflammatory remark. That isn't even a rational point, its just a snipe thats trying to piss off Skybird.

This is when you want a moderator to slap little boys on the wrists.

[CCIP]

What good did scientologists do to be defended? And what did they likewise do to deserve being recognized as a religion? You'd think we have enough of those to go around... :hmm:


Seriously, as much as a ban on these grounds from shooting a movie is stupid... I just don't see where the good in these bunch of nuts is. I could make a better religion than that, just that I'm not a filthy rich sci-fi writer who has the money for proper PR.

Also rather funny to come from you waste gate, considering you've called socialism a religion in a negative sense before. You think these nuts are better than socialists, huh...

[Reaves]

Originally Posted by CCIP

What good did scientologists do to be defended? And what did they likewise do to deserve being recognized as a religion? You'd think we have enough of those to go around... :hmm:

Seriously, as much as a ban on these grounds from shooting a movie is stupid... I just don't see where the good in these bunch of nuts is. I could make a better religion than that, just that I'm not a filthy rich sci-fi writer who has the money for proper PR.

The fact that people can believe in it is the scariest. I'd sooner believe in Jedi as a legitimate religion than the far fetched fiction that is scientology.

[Skybird]

On the remarks some people made that germany "bans shooting the movie", and that the family of Stauffenberg prevented the shooting.

Germany does not and cannot ban the shooting. It has no legal powers to do so. Germany simply refuses to cooperate in making a desired location, that is under administrative control of the German state authority, available to the shoot. Like you have the right to say No! when somebody asks you if he can film in your house.

The family of stauffenberg expressed their worries and concerns, but also admitted in writing that they have no legal means available to prevent scientology's engagement in that movie. that they are not happy that a known representant of a totalitarian organization plays the role of a man who died in order to overcome a totalitarian dictator, makes sense, don't you think? See here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108743

[Onkel Neal]

This is a potentially volatile topic, keep it civil, please.

Originally Posted by P_Funk

There is a twisted and inflammatory remark. That isn't even a rational point, its just a snipe thats trying to piss off Skybird.

No, it was done to place a sharper point on the unhealthy parallels I see.

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by waste gate

No, it was done to place a sharper point on the unhealthy parallels I see.

Parallels that Skybird already answered in post #8. The difference now though is that you are wording it in such a way as to infer he has similarities to Nazis in his beliefs.

I'm very wary of any comparisons to the Nazis. Its overdone. As John Stuart said once "Hey you know who's like Hitler? HITLER! Hitler worked really hard to be as bad as he was." I'm paraphrasing that sorta but you get the point. Its a bad idea to make those comparisons, and certainly in bad taste.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by waste gate

The essay is accusing the Jews of what you accuse Scientology of being. Insert Scientology where you see Jew and where you see 'the German Reich' insert 'German authorities' and there you have it.

PS
Like I stated its your country. But which religion will the German authorities be going after next?

EDIT: Just so I have it right, you don't like the Poles, you don't like the Scientologists; my question is when in the anschluss? Like I stated unhealthy.

You are a provocating troll, and provocation is all you are after. Your statements above have zero meaning concerning the reality, as I said. This is not the 30s, I am not goebbels, and scientology is not the persecuted Jews. If scientology would get heavy influence in german politics - then Germany would turn out to become that nasty place that you accuse it to already be right now.

scientology is a aggressively acting sect, it is totalitarian, and it hurts people and exploits them. It is no religion, never was a religion, never will be a religion.

But today it has become common habit that every buffoon can show up and tell people that his thoughts and deeds, no matter how hurting to others, how damaging to a state, how stupid and illogical and unreasonable they may be, were just his innocent, precious "religion" - and he will promptly be considered to be untouchable, because "Pssssst! He is about religion, you know... " Every crap and every criminal intention gets excused by that. To ask if the thing in question really is a religion, a cultural tradition, or soemthing like that, and if it really is worth to be tolerated, and really is not damaging to our own societies, and the wellbeing of the citizens in our nations, already is successfully prevented by doing that way. - But I don't buy that.

Hubbard once said something like this: if you want to make really big money, don't just write funny books - found a religion. - So much for the authenticity of the "religion" thing with scientology.

[The Avon Lady]

As a Jew, who lost so many relatives to the Germans and their supporters, I say Skybird's got it just right.