mk27 slightly destroying gameplay experience... - Page 2

vatek · 06-04-07, 12:35 PM

I have apparently been sunk by my lack of engineering knowledge. Well played, sir. :p

LukeFF · 06-04-07, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Maybe its true but my game bitches at me if I try to adjust the settings on a tube below periscope depth "To deep to launch torpedos sir !". Duh... I just want you to adjust the speed not launch the damn thing.

The NSS_ CFG files (in /data/submarine) allow you to adjust the maximum depth at which torpedoes can be launched. The line you're looking for is TorpLaunchMaxDepth.

SteamWake · 06-04-07, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vatek

I have apparently been sunk by my lack of engineering knowledge. Well played, sir. :p

Like a man that can take a joke

Good for you !

TheSatyr · 06-04-07, 09:42 PM

Also take into consideration that there weren't very many "Cuties" available. Subs generally only had one or two on board. They were only to be used in "emergency" situations.

And I don't think Cuties were very fast so a DD going at full speed might be able to outrun them...if they know it's coming. (A DE might not be fast enough to get away...but a DD doing 35 Knts could possibly do it.).

The Tirante (another Tench) used a Cutie when she was boxed in by escorts. She damaged an escort with one and in the ensuing confusion managed to give the remaining escorts the slip. She may actually have been the first sub to use a Cutie.

SteamWake · 06-04-07, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSatyr

Also take into consideration that there weren't very many "Cuties" available. Subs generally only had one or two on board. They were only to be used in "emergency" situations.

And I don't think Cuties were very fast so a DD going at full speed might be able to outrun them...if they know it's coming. (A DE might not be fast enough to get away...but a DD doing 35 Knts could possibly do it.).

The Tirante (another Tench) used a Cutie when she was boxed in by escorts. She damaged an escort with one and in the ensuing confusion managed to give the remaining escorts the slip. She may actually have been the first sub to use a Cutie.

Most DD's Ive seen were steaming towards me... not running away at 35kts. But yea they could probably out run a torp in the right situation.

pythos · 06-04-07, 10:19 PM

To the skipper upset about the reality being ruined. Don't play a subsim of modern Nuclear subs. Basically once a target is found, most everything is automatic once the torp is out of the tube.

You think the MK27 makes it too easy? The torps on modern subs would make you cry from boredom. Sure they have to still plot solutions, but not to hit, they just need to get into the area of the target, the torp does the rest.

Submarine warfare started drastically changing near the end of the war, the MK27 and type 4es of the kriegsmarine were just the begining.

Nowadays it is findin the target (usually another submarine) that is the hardest part.

CaptainHaplo · 06-04-07, 10:49 PM

As for launching "deep" - it was possible then, and possible now. The issue was and currently still is (until the water ram system is perfected) that a torp is fired using high pressure air - and so the deeper you go - the more air pressure (and thus actual air) you need to get the bugger out the tube. WW2 subs had alot less reserve air than a modern nuke boat - they are allowed to fire from 500+ feet as needed - although deeper is frowned upon. 2-3 hundred is preferable as modern torps can then dive to a preset depth. WW2 boats had little "reserve" air - so once the sonar approach (which was made around 100 feet) went by the wayside, it was VERY rare for a torp to be launched deep.

nattydread · 06-04-07, 11:14 PM

From what I understand, the torp would home toward the screws, causing the fish to follow a lag pursuit and that shots fired with a small AoB from the target may have had problems acquiring a good contact. I assume hull noise and such was sufficient if the target was moving at high speeds.

I would expect the majority of hits would be stern hits, great for disabling ships if the the damage model has the fidelity for it(If yet to see any stern shots cripple a ship).

If you get too many amidship hits, I'd question the fidelity of the tracking model. Its likly working more like a active ping fish than a passive or just a over-simplified ship-seeking fish instead of a true passive sonar tracking fish(an oversight from previous SH versions).

WernerSobe · 06-05-07, 04:13 AM

how is it ruining the gameplay. its realistic.

its the way how it works. you dont need a firing solution. If you want to add more realism you can perform a realistic firing procedure for acoustic homing torpedoes which means

1. firing only one accoustic torpedoe at once
2. only in deep water
3. diving fast below 150 feet after release and full stop

AVGWarhawk · 06-05-07, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

As for launching "deep" - it was possible then, and possible now. The issue was and currently still is (until the water ram system is perfected) that a torp is fired using high pressure air - and so the deeper you go - the more air pressure (and thus actual air) you need to get the bugger out the tube. WW2 subs had alot less reserve air than a modern nuke boat - they are allowed to fire from 500+ feet as needed - although deeper is frowned upon. 2-3 hundred is preferable as modern torps can then dive to a preset depth. WW2 boats had little "reserve" air - so once the sonar approach (which was made around 100 feet) went by the wayside, it was VERY rare for a torp to be launched deep.

Air was not always used. Specifically for the electrics. The electrics would swim out of the tube because the diameter was much smaller than the steamers. The cutie was electric? Not sure. Have to check this out. With that said, deep submerged launch with electric could be done without worry of air charge to launch.

kv29 · 06-05-07, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythos

To the skipper upset about the reality being ruined. Don't play a subsim of modern Nuclear subs. Basically once a target is found, most everything is automatic once the torp is out of the tube.

You think the MK27 makes it too easy? The torps on modern subs would make you cry from boredom. Sure they have to still plot solutions, but not to hit, they just need to get into the area of the target, the torp does the rest.

Submarine warfare started drastically changing near the end of the war, the MK27 and type 4es of the kriegsmarine were just the begining.

Nowadays it is findin the target (usually another submarine) that is the hardest part.

thats what I meant.

having revisited the mk27, they are not perfect as I thought. this time missed 2 of them from a 60° angle at 2000 meters (they really can´t turn on a dime). Also another 2 made little damage to a big merchant, but proved deadly against dds with their 43 kg warhead?

SteamWake · 06-05-07, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kv29

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythos

To the skipper upset about the reality being ruined. Don't play a subsim of modern Nuclear subs. Basically once a target is found, most everything is automatic once the torp is out of the tube.

You think the MK27 makes it too easy? The torps on modern subs would make you cry from boredom. Sure they have to still plot solutions, but not to hit, they just need to get into the area of the target, the torp does the rest.

Submarine warfare started drastically changing near the end of the war, the MK27 and type 4es of the kriegsmarine were just the begining.

Nowadays it is findin the target (usually another submarine) that is the hardest part.

thats what I meant.

having revisited the mk27, they are not perfect as I thought. this time missed 2 of them from a 60° angle at 2000 meters (they really can´t turn on a dime). Also another 2 made little damage to a big merchant, but proved deadly against dds with their 43 kg warhead?

Might want to check out the "Die Slowly" mod.

GT182 · 06-05-07, 04:10 PM

Is sonar fixed suffiently by a mod in SH4 to coordinate a deep launch to hit anything with a Mk27?

Or, do we need to wait and see what happens with Patch 1.3 fixing sonar to make this possible?

I haven't tried to use sonar and haven't seen if a mod is available. Only played around with quick missions so far. From what I've seen so far sonar isn't working as it should.

nomdeplume · 06-19-07, 08:07 AM

I just got to try out the cuties, and found them completely useless. In both cases, the destroyer was circling above me (or at least, above where it thought I was

) while the cutie merrily followed it, never quite catching it. Eventually its battery ran out and died.

I watched this with the external camera, and I definitely got the impression that the DD was deliberately speeding up to put more distance between it and the torpedo. I also heard its alert alarm played a few times; but I'm not sure if that was because of the torp or something else. It might also be that the DDs naturally circle at an average of just over 12 knots, keeping them out of the reach of the cuties.

I'm playing with the Trigger Maru mod if that makes a difference. Likely it does, as all of the enemies are very much on the ball with the mod. It seems I can't even sneak up on lone merchants at 40m depth without them detecting me, somehow.

Pretty disappointing. The Germans had much better torpedos! It didn't help that I failed to sink the two freighters I targeted in the convoy as well, despite scoring two hits on both.

GTHammer · 06-19-07, 09:29 AM

http://www.bergall.org/cutie.html

Cutie stats...max speed is 12 kts over 5,000 yards. Always would like to give credit to SteamWake as he found this link, I just stole it from one of his posts in an earlier thread.

06-04-07, 10:49 PM	#22
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	As for launching "deep" - it was possible then, and possible now. The issue was and currently still is (until the water ram system is perfected) that a torp is fired using high pressure air - and so the deeper you go - the more air pressure (and thus actual air) you need to get the bugger out the tube. WW2 subs had alot less reserve air than a modern nuke boat - they are allowed to fire from 500+ feet as needed - although deeper is frowned upon. 2-3 hundred is preferable as modern torps can then dive to a preset depth. WW2 boats had little "reserve" air - so once the sonar approach (which was made around 100 feet) went by the wayside, it was VERY rare for a torp to be launched deep. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

06-05-07, 04:10 PM	#28
GT182 Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: New Castle of Delaware Posts: 3,231 Downloads: 658 Uploads: 0	Is sonar fixed suffiently by a mod in SH4 to coordinate a deep launch to hit anything with a Mk27? Or, do we need to wait and see what happens with Patch 1.3 fixing sonar to make this possible? I haven't tried to use sonar and haven't seen if a mod is available. Only played around with quick missions so far. From what I've seen so far sonar isn't working as it should. __________________ Gary No Borders, No Language, No Culture =s No Country I'm a Deplorable, and proud of it.

06-19-07, 09:29 AM	#30
GTHammer Machinist's Mate Join Date: May 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 127 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	http://www.bergall.org/cutie.html Cutie stats...max speed is 12 kts over 5,000 yards. Always would like to give credit to SteamWake as he found this link, I just stole it from one of his posts in an earlier thread. __________________ GT USS Hammer

06-04-07, 12:35 PM	#16
vatek Sailor man Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 44 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I have apparently been sunk by my lack of engineering knowledge. Well played, sir. :p

06-04-07, 09:42 PM	#19
TheSatyr Captain Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 545 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Also take into consideration that there weren't very many "Cuties" available. Subs generally only had one or two on board. They were only to be used in "emergency" situations. And I don't think Cuties were very fast so a DD going at full speed might be able to outrun them...if they know it's coming. (A DE might not be fast enough to get away...but a DD doing 35 Knts could possibly do it.). The Tirante (another Tench) used a Cutie when she was boxed in by escorts. She damaged an escort with one and in the ensuing confusion managed to give the remaining escorts the slip. She may actually have been the first sub to use a Cutie.

06-04-07, 10:19 PM	#21
pythos Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere over there Posts: 834 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	To the skipper upset about the reality being ruined. Don't play a subsim of modern Nuclear subs. Basically once a target is found, most everything is automatic once the torp is out of the tube. You think the MK27 makes it too easy? The torps on modern subs would make you cry from boredom. Sure they have to still plot solutions, but not to hit, they just need to get into the area of the target, the torp does the rest. Submarine warfare started drastically changing near the end of the war, the MK27 and type 4es of the kriegsmarine were just the begining. Nowadays it is findin the target (usually another submarine) that is the hardest part.

06-04-07, 11:14 PM	#23
nattydread Captain Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 498 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	From what I understand, the torp would home toward the screws, causing the fish to follow a lag pursuit and that shots fired with a small AoB from the target may have had problems acquiring a good contact. I assume hull noise and such was sufficient if the target was moving at high speeds. I would expect the majority of hits would be stern hits, great for disabling ships if the the damage model has the fidelity for it(If yet to see any stern shots cripple a ship). If you get too many amidship hits, I'd question the fidelity of the tracking model. Its likly working more like a active ping fish than a passive or just a over-simplified ship-seeking fish instead of a true passive sonar tracking fish(an oversight from previous SH versions).

06-05-07, 04:13 AM	#24
WernerSobe Commodore Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 625 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	how is it ruining the gameplay. its realistic. its the way how it works. you dont need a firing solution. If you want to add more realism you can perform a realistic firing procedure for acoustic homing torpedoes which means 1. firing only one accoustic torpedoe at once 2. only in deep water 3. diving fast below 150 feet after release and full stop

06-19-07, 08:07 AM	#29
nomdeplume Seaman Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 36 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I just got to try out the cuties, and found them completely useless. In both cases, the destroyer was circling above me (or at least, above where it thought I was ) while the cutie merrily followed it, never quite catching it. Eventually its battery ran out and died. I watched this with the external camera, and I definitely got the impression that the DD was deliberately speeding up to put more distance between it and the torpedo. I also heard its alert alarm played a few times; but I'm not sure if that was because of the torp or something else. It might also be that the DDs naturally circle at an average of just over 12 knots, keeping them out of the reach of the cuties. I'm playing with the Trigger Maru mod if that makes a difference. Likely it does, as all of the enemies are very much on the ball with the mod. It seems I can't even sneak up on lone merchants at 40m depth without them detecting me, somehow. Pretty disappointing. The Germans had much better torpedos! It didn't help that I failed to sink the two freighters I targeted in the convoy as well, despite scoring two hits on both.