Thank-you Poland!

Polak · 06-03-07, 12:21 PM

Once again, I am grateful for all the kind words. It’s very nice for me as a Pole that you two gents know something about our history. I believe that history for Poles is a very touchy subject since it has treated us very unfair. Our efforts are rarely noted, and if people mention polish war efforts they usually talk about Polish cavalry attacks against tanks, which are outright propaganda.

People rarely talk about how the Poles saved Europe from a ottoman invasion at Vienna, or how we stopped the Bolshevik expansion in the 1920’s. I think that Americans and the French should at least know something about this since you participated in this war, and made a Polish victory possible. Poles and Americans actually share a lot of common history, the American cavalry was originally created by a polish general and Poland aided the States countless times, as did the States do in return.

An other very touchy subject for us is WW2, we often meet with stereotypes such as the earlier mentioned cavalry attacks or how we got blitzed by the Germans.
The facts are that Poland had a very big army before the war, and our technology was far superior to the Soviet one, and at some areas it was even far superior to German technology, once again no one knows about this. No one knows about the Polish medium bomber £o¶, which was the most modern medium bomber at the time, instead everyone talk about how the polish air force got destroyed on the ground.

Polish antitank weapons are also never mentioned, they too where state of the art equipment when the war broke out. The Germans actually used technology from captured polish weapons in their machineguns, the technology is still used today in the famous H&K MP5. Poles also brought a lot of technology to England during the war, we had some great solutions for bombing-bay doors and we had the revolutionary bombsights that where then adapted by all allied air fleets.

Polish efforts in breaking the Enigma code are always overseen, people think that the English broke the enigma code, but it was actually the Poles. The polish intelligence service already hade the code for the tree-rotor enigma before the war.

“When the polish general staff was working for a plan against a possible German attack or a possible Soviet attack the polish generals asked field marshal Józef Pi³sudski, why they are not working on a plan against a joint German-Soviet attack.
Pi³sudski replied that it would be a waste of his soldiers, and that he would expect only the general staff to fight with their sabers at the Saxon palace(General HQ) against the attackers.”

Field marshal Józef Pi³sudski was more than right in his statement, it would be a tremendous waste of his soldiers. Fortunately for him, he did not live long enough to see WW2. Poland did not have a chance against both the Germans and the Soviets, a two front war, alone against those two countries was impossible.

I am sorry if you find me to be bragging about my country, but most Poles are tiered off when they and their efforts are being ignored.
The Germans are better of than we today, and they lost the war… A polish delegation was not even invited to the victory days in Moscow two years back.
Finally what I am aiming at, is that when we hear people like you say something positive about our efforts, we get really moved. I am sure that you would be welcomed in every home in Poland for such statements. You are most certainly welcomed in my house at anytime, wodka and food is all on me.

/Polak

Rose · 06-04-07, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polak

Poland aided the States countless times

Even in the American Revolution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadeusz_Ko%C5%9Bciuszko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polak

technology was far superior to the Soviet one, and at some areas it was even far superior to German technology, once again no one knows about this.

I actually thought that the Polish were technologically behind (like the French and Americans at the beginning), but I guess I was wrong. I DID know that they had (almost) the same amount of men as the Germans, but that their lines were spread so thin because of the length of the Polish border, so the Germans slipped and pushed through the openings.

I also learned that the Polish air force was greatly damaged on the ground, but that the remaining planes destroyed or damaged 500 Luftwaffe planes. Amazing. I got much of my information out of a book called the Atlas of WWII and another book called simply World War Two.

This is a good page (I know, it's Wikipedia, but I'm lazy and I like Wikipedia): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_...bution_to_WWII

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polak

wodka ... is all on me.

Hmmm, that's an enticing offer. I'll let you know if I'm ever in Poland

nikimcbee · 06-04-07, 11:50 PM

The closest I've been to Poland, was the Polish part of Chicago. That was an interesting experience (not in a good way

)

Grom · 06-05-07, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

The closest I've been to Poland, was the Polish part of Chicago. That was an interesting experience (not in a good way

)

You can alway meet good and bad people. Doesnt matter what nationality they have. I used to say about war: not every polish guy was good, and not every german guy was bad.

Polak · 06-05-07, 04:22 AM

I apologize for not giving any sources to my statements, now I realize that it can be hard to believe me when I introduce so much different historic knowledge. If anyone is interested in further reading and in getting to know a different approach to polish war efforts in WW2, I recommend the following web pages:
http://www.ww2.pl/
http://www.polandinexile.com/index.html

You will find loads of information and a lot of myths will be busted, such as the polish air force being destroyed on the ground.
The first web page is very credible since it is administrated by the Polish government. Both web pages provide very credible sources, such as state archives and likewise.

I have spent my share of time in western countries and I’ve read many “western” history books. Unfortunately they provide a very wrong picture of Poland and WW2.
I believe that this is mostly caused by the fact that we where enemies throughout the cold war, and we had the iron curtain dividing us. And why should two enemies create a good historical picture of each other?

The natural thing is to believe your own sources and your own history books, so history as a discussion topic is a great conflict starter. I personally believe that an opened mind is needed when approaching history, I can clearly see that you guys have an opened mind.

mariuszj1939 · 06-05-07, 05:08 AM

some of helicopers just arrived from Iraq mission (see condition

)

nikimcbee · 06-06-07, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariuszj1939

some of helicopers just arrived from Iraq mission (see condition

)

My favorite helicopter

Rose · 06-05-07, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

The closest I've been to Poland, was the Polish part of Chicago. That was an interesting experience (not in a good way

)

Same here! :rotfl: (I used to live in Chi-town)

Thanks for those links, Polak, the sites are very informative.

An interesting side-note is that my grandfather volunteered for the Army intelligence service during the Korean War, and the recruits had to learn a "Communist" language (so they could listen in on radio transmissions) -- my grandfather chose Polish, so throughout the war, he listened to Polish radio transmissions. He told me the most exciting transmission he listened to was when two Polish fighter pilots were flying a patrol over Poland, and one of them said to the other, "I'm going West, I can't take it here any longer," and the other said something like, "no, you can't, what about your wife and kids?" and the other one said, "I'm going," and he escaped the Soviet Union.

*Edit*: The only line in my 10th grade US History book about Poland during the war is, "...the German armies quickly subdued Poland..." It says nothing about their hard and brave fighting. Oh well, what do you expect it's a US history book.

KrvKpt. Falke · 06-06-07, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose

*Edit*: The only line in my 10th grade US History book about Poland during the war is, "...the German armies quickly subdued Poland..." It says nothing about their hard and brave fighting. Oh well, what do you expect it's a US history book.

Here in Poland we study Polish history AND world history (i think its not only in Poland like that but in most european countries). When i was, err.. younger than today [

] those two subjects were equal, but today "weird" thing are happenning here in Poland (maybe youve heard something, who rules here and how...) and Polish history in schools is in the first place.
But! i was going to ask if there is no world history in american schools?

Rose · 06-06-07, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrvKpt. Falke

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose

*Edit*: The only line in my 10th grade US History book about Poland during the war is, "...the German armies quickly subdued Poland..." It says nothing about their hard and brave fighting. Oh well, what do you expect it's a US history book.

Here in Poland we study Polish history AND world history (i think its not only in Poland like that but in most european countries). When i was, err.. younger than today [

] those two subjects were equal, but today "weird" thing are happenning here in Poland (maybe youve heard something, who rules here and how...) and Polish history in schools is in the first place.
But! i was going to ask if there is no world history in american schools?

We hold World History and US History as equal subjects as well (I can't say for the public school system -- I go to a private school were the school makes the rules, not the country). Each year, we switch off between the two. Last year, when I was 14/15 yrs old, we learned World History, so this year (15/16) we did US History. Next year, we have a choice between AP US History and AP European history (AP means a university-level course in high school). I am going to take AP Euro because I find European history fascinating.

No, I do not know who rules Poland now. What do you mean when you say that?

KrvKpt. Falke · 06-07-07, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose

No, I do not know who rules Poland now. What do you mean when you say that?

Poland is ruled by strongly conservative party "Law & Justice" founded by our current president Lech Kaczynski and prime minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski.
I dont like talking too much about politics (especially polish politics

) but - in my opinion - brothers Kaczynski and their political party way of ruling is xenophobic, homophobic, full of extreme views. For example: they try to teach children in potriotic way, but its seems like patriotism (good) and nationalism (bad) is the same thing for them...
But lets talk some more pleasant things

06-03-07, 12:21 PM	#1
Polak Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Poland/Sweden Posts: 808 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Once again, I am grateful for all the kind words. It’s very nice for me as a Pole that you two gents know something about our history. I believe that history for Poles is a very touchy subject since it has treated us very unfair. Our efforts are rarely noted, and if people mention polish war efforts they usually talk about Polish cavalry attacks against tanks, which are outright propaganda. People rarely talk about how the Poles saved Europe from a ottoman invasion at Vienna, or how we stopped the Bolshevik expansion in the 1920’s. I think that Americans and the French should at least know something about this since you participated in this war, and made a Polish victory possible. Poles and Americans actually share a lot of common history, the American cavalry was originally created by a polish general and Poland aided the States countless times, as did the States do in return. An other very touchy subject for us is WW2, we often meet with stereotypes such as the earlier mentioned cavalry attacks or how we got blitzed by the Germans. The facts are that Poland had a very big army before the war, and our technology was far superior to the Soviet one, and at some areas it was even far superior to German technology, once again no one knows about this. No one knows about the Polish medium bomber £o¶, which was the most modern medium bomber at the time, instead everyone talk about how the polish air force got destroyed on the ground. Polish antitank weapons are also never mentioned, they too where state of the art equipment when the war broke out. The Germans actually used technology from captured polish weapons in their machineguns, the technology is still used today in the famous H&K MP5. Poles also brought a lot of technology to England during the war, we had some great solutions for bombing-bay doors and we had the revolutionary bombsights that where then adapted by all allied air fleets. Polish efforts in breaking the Enigma code are always overseen, people think that the English broke the enigma code, but it was actually the Poles. The polish intelligence service already hade the code for the tree-rotor enigma before the war. “When the polish general staff was working for a plan against a possible German attack or a possible Soviet attack the polish generals asked field marshal Józef Pi³sudski, why they are not working on a plan against a joint German-Soviet attack. Pi³sudski replied that it would be a waste of his soldiers, and that he would expect only the general staff to fight with their sabers at the Saxon palace(General HQ) against the attackers.” Field marshal Józef Pi³sudski was more than right in his statement, it would be a tremendous waste of his soldiers. Fortunately for him, he did not live long enough to see WW2. Poland did not have a chance against both the Germans and the Soviets, a two front war, alone against those two countries was impossible. I am sorry if you find me to be bragging about my country, but most Poles are tiered off when they and their efforts are being ignored. The Germans are better of than we today, and they lost the war… A polish delegation was not even invited to the victory days in Moscow two years back. Finally what I am aiming at, is that when we hear people like you say something positive about our efforts, we get really moved. I am sure that you would be welcomed in every home in Poland for such statements. You are most certainly welcomed in my house at anytime, wodka and food is all on me. /Polak __________________

06-04-07, 11:50 PM	#3
nikimcbee Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Patroling the Slot. Posts: 17,925 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	The closest I've been to Poland, was the Polish part of Chicago. That was an interesting experience (not in a good way ) __________________

06-05-07, 04:22 AM	#5
Polak Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Poland/Sweden Posts: 808 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I apologize for not giving any sources to my statements, now I realize that it can be hard to believe me when I introduce so much different historic knowledge. If anyone is interested in further reading and in getting to know a different approach to polish war efforts in WW2, I recommend the following web pages: http://www.ww2.pl/ http://www.polandinexile.com/index.html You will find loads of information and a lot of myths will be busted, such as the polish air force being destroyed on the ground. The first web page is very credible since it is administrated by the Polish government. Both web pages provide very credible sources, such as state archives and likewise. I have spent my share of time in western countries and I’ve read many “western” history books. Unfortunately they provide a very wrong picture of Poland and WW2. I believe that this is mostly caused by the fact that we where enemies throughout the cold war, and we had the iron curtain dividing us. And why should two enemies create a good historical picture of each other? The natural thing is to believe your own sources and your own history books, so history as a discussion topic is a great conflict starter. I personally believe that an opened mind is needed when approaching history, I can clearly see that you guys have an opened mind. __________________

06-05-07, 05:08 AM	#6
mariuszj1939 Loader Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 82 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	some of helicopers just arrived from Iraq mission (see condition )