Shame on these people

[Skybird]

Wait until the summit begins. the security meqasures are excessive - so is the anger and detemrination of some thugs that do not want to demonstrate, but are just coming for the "Randale". Past G8 summits already were no peaceful events, but this time it could become additionally grim. Depends on the police' preparations, and strategy.

that parts of constitutional rights and civil rights partially have been cancelled fopr duration of the summit, and before, does does not help to calm angry tempers. The whole summit is a damn feudal freak show. The costs and the efforts taken just that some self-convinced leaders can have their dinner in a monarch's way, is disgusting. they should hold their meetings in less costly and provocative manners. a whole village has been effectively turned into a fortress. Demonstrations are forbidden to be closer than 6 km. the right to demonstrate becomes a farce if those being adressed by the demonstration mjst not take note of it, and do not even know of it. But let it appriach at least the outer fence (which still is 2 km away from the village), and you will have troubles with the violent thugs in th crowd. You can do what you want - you get a mess.

That's why I strictly oppose such summits being held in such a way. Demosntrators loose, police looses, democarcy looses - everybody looses.

The Nazis where trying to demonstrate in Schwerin today. They also try to brake into the anti-G8-camp. Violent lefts are trying their luck in Hamburg meanwhile. Plenty of fun ahead.

Disgusting.

I would bomb the place with sleep gas from aircraft - including the damn confernce room.

[Hitman]

These police are just doing their job, I do not agree there is anything so henious about a G-8 summit that merits this level of violence from "protesters".

Open fire! I say

Someone has to do the dirty job, yet it is always a shame to get hurt just bceause you are trying to earn a wage

I would bomb the place with sleep gas from aircraft - including the damn confernce room

Don't worry about that, the conclusions of the conference will be exactly the same if the ones involved in t had been sleeping

[CCIP]

You have to agree that while Russia is often criticized for being heavy-handed, the last G-8 summit (in St. Petersburg) was certainly the most trouble-free so far. I was in the city at the time, and I was more scared of the heavily armed police (or rather interior ministry troops, even) than of any disorder, of which there was none. (and let's not forget the more recent protest attempts there, either). Anyone who made a peep was quickly dragged off. No violence, noone killed, noone injured so far as I know. And they let the protesters run free at an old stadium in an isolated part of town, where they got quickly bored. Some city administration people visited them to play soccer, and the protestors lost!

They should just conduct all their summits in Russia from now on.

[AntEater]

In contrary to the US, Riots are not uncommon in Germany.
There exists a bunch of radical elements who hijack pretty much every public demonstration.
I don't really share the criticism of the (peaceful) protesters against the G8 summit, but the curtailing of civil liberties, the "Baltic wall" around Heiligendamm and the general behaviour of our internal security services angers me.
Keep in mind there were about 25000 peaceful protesters whose organisation cooperated with the police, while there were at most 2000 violent "protesters".
The Meck/Pomm police actually was quite smart in dealing with peaceful and violent protesters quite seperately.

What angered me were the curtailing of civil liberties and the security measures for Heiligendamm, most of which are according to US demands. According to various reports, the fence and the whole security scheme is basically there to satisfy the secret service.
Neither Putin nor Sarkozy nor Blair nor any other head of state demands such high security and there have been meetings of a similar number of EU head of states without such a backfall to GDR times.
I often wonder why there has been such high security for a US president in a foreign country (which is not exactly indian territory unless a US president visits it) while security in a country where pretty much everybody is armed (his own) the security measures are much more relaxed.
I suppose it is some kind of perverse power demonstration that the US is able to shut down all normal life in a country for a simple state visit.
Apparently the only country a US president could currently visit without any drastic change in Orwellian direction is Iraq, where everything would just stay the same.
I suppose the best way to deal with the diplomatic obligations of the US would be either to convert an aircraft carrier into a floating diplomatic base or do it like Saddam and use Doppelgängers for state visits. Not that anyone would notice the difference anyway...

[Skybird]

Well, the Secret Service is known for naturally assuming that foreign nations are it's personal property. Last time Bush was in Germany, some years ago, the clashes between the BKA and the Secret Service were said to have been short of turnin violant behind the curtains, so to speak. German BKA officials were said to be so upset about the ever more far leading demands by the Americans that they recommended to throw them out and scratch the presidential vist from the list. Bush wasn't wanted by residents and Germans anyway. When he drove through the city, people had to stay away from windows - in their own homes. The scenes looked like ghost towns, or what somtimes was to seen in Eastern-European countries during the Soviet era when a high-ranking political convoy was racing through a city. I wonder what the use of such stunts should be. PR-wise, last time it was a desaster. I personally think that a foreign guest whose bodyguards behave as if the hosting nation is theirs, would not be missed if he stays were he is - as far away as possible.

Rostock is calm now - with 13.000 riot police in town, they said in "Heute Journal". Two things are quite obvious: first, that today'S riots were started by the so-called autonomous block who afterwards were sick enough to say they had been provoked, and second that the organizers of the intended peaceful rallies and demonstrations do not really know what many kinds of guests they are hosting, and that they do not have them under control.

I wish Bush would have stayed away, he is not welcomed here and he will not be anything more than a roadblock anyway.

BTW, riots are not typical for Germany, the wild years have been the late 60s of which I have no memory, and the 80s which I expreinced in Berlin, and compared to that they are rare these days. They appear throughout Europe with the exception of the scandinavia countries, my impression is. Often, football and holligans have something to do with the trouble.

I see this thread has turned into another bash the US screed from the usual suspects.

[AntEater]

Not really anti-americanism. Just saying that the US should get to a slightly more relaxed approach on such matters. Germany is not indian territory (in a John Wayne sense) and german security forces are quite capable.

But as I said, both the leaders of the peaceful protests as well as the local police commanders reacted quite well, it seems. But 30000+ protesters plus 13000 police is quite a lot for such a small town as Rostock, and more protesters are coming.
Actually the peaceful side of that anti-summit campaign seems to turn into some kind of baltic Woodstock. Quite a few people I know are on their way there and maybe I would've gone myself if I didnt have to work.
In a navy context, a german navy minesweeper blew up a WW2 magnetic mine off Heiligendamm this morning. At least the navy gets the opportunity to do something worthwile on their time and clean the baltic from such leftovers

Based on the news out of Germany regarding this it sounds like 'indian territory' to me. The summit hasn't even started and the German authorities are already overwhelmed. Common sense seems to dictate a more robust approach to these 'people'.

[NefariousKoel]

Ahhh... Liberals getting violent. An increasing trend.

The new Bolshevik revolution?

[Lurchi]

Originally Posted by Skybird

[...]Last time Bush was in Germany, some years ago, the clashes between the BKA and the Secret Service were said to have been short of turnin violant behind the curtains, so to speak. German BKA officials were said to be so upset about the ever more far leading demands by the Americans that they recommended to throw them out and scratch the presidential vist from the list.

From what i've heard the exact opposite was true: It were the german authorities who had completely overdone this whole security thing - even the secret service personnel shook their head over the native genius who decided to close down a complete freeway junction which led to complete chaos. Bush obviously wasn't too amused when he was driven through Ghosttowns which was the exact opposite from the visits of Ronald Reagan or -especially- John F. Kennedy () who were cheered by the population.

One must admit that the U.S. President is the most endangered person on this G-8 summit - the long list of killed Presidents is proof enough. It doesn't matter if one likes Bush or not, he is an elected leader and a guest in our country - he should be welcomed and treated as such, all necessary security measures included.

I also think that violent riots become a sport here - last week there was one on the occasion of the ASEM summit in Hamburg.

The last two G8 summits here in the US had none of this violence.

I remember the summit here in Denver in 1997. There were some traffic issues as the leaders moved around but no violent protests.

The conclusion I make is that if you put a mask on during a protest in this country you are going to get more than water shot at you.........real consequences for actions.

[fatty]

My city hosted the G7 (before Russia joined and made it the G8) in '95. I was young but my older sister worked as an interpreter for the Russian delegates. It was a pretty jubilant time - a hell of a lot of partying at all hours of the night. I think the favour of certain leaders present does make a difference.

[mapuc]

To Neal:

Open fire, well many danish citizen said the same, when the danish police "clean out" a occupied house On "jagtvej 69"

Those protestan had no sympathy at all.

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Lurchi

From what i've heard the exact opposite was true: It were the german authorities who had completely overdone this whole security thing - even the secret service personnel shook their head over the native genius who decided to close down a complete freeway junction which led to complete chaos. Bush obviously wasn't too amused when he was driven through Ghosttowns which was the exact opposite from the visits of Ronald Reagan or -especially- John F. Kennedy () who were cheered by the population.

Sorry, but I know that one better, first-hand from a friend of mine who has been associated with the foreign ministry. Sorry that I can't give you the details on him, but he wouldn't like it. I know him from my adventure times - back then he was a freelance correspondent. At least that's what he said. Sometimes I thought that he also was a bit of something different. Which often is difficult to separate in the Middle East.

And since you mentioned the assassinations - how many presidents have been shot in the last decades inside america, by Americans, and how many have been shot by foreigners? They tried Roosevelt, Ford (now that was really a harmless guy), and Reagan; they succeeded with Kennedy. Noboy tried Nixon, or Bush junior. Hm.

Today'S events have something good: for the next days, the police is warned. I know that during today, additional BGS units have been put on alarm throughout Gemany and got marching order towards Heiligendamm. Officials do not make it a high-profile story.

And while the Nazis were denied to demosntrate in Schwerin, they surprised the police in Berlin and demonstrated there, unhindered and mostly unguarded. Bad failure by the intelligence guys...

Check out the photo gallery. These masked thugs are out in the open. If the Germans have any respect for their law and the people sworn to uphold that law they would demand an armed response, a handful of well placed snipers would do the trick. Drop a few and the problem will go away.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...486307,00.html