Russia blames US in missile row

[cobalt]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Too bad Iran doesnt even have those missiles ?


The best thing they have to my knowledge is the Shahab-3 which has a range of 2,000km

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by cobalt

The best thing they have to my knowledge is the Shahab-3 which has a range of 2,000km

Possibly the Shahab 3D, with a range of 3000KM.

And they're not finished yet.

[Yahoshua]

Originally Posted by cobalt

Too bad Iran doesnt even have those missiles ?

The best thing they have to my knowledge is the Shahab-3 which has a range of 2,000km

Even so, 2,000 km puts a good portion of Europe and Russia under Irans' guns.

[XabbaRus]

I see the usual suspects making the usual comments without really understanding why.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by cobalt

bring back the CCCP!

CCIP is better.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

I see the usual suspects making the usual comments without really understanding why.

Russian ICBMs are aging, their replacement is being planned since the arly 90s. You just don't sit down with an intention for a new missiles, and one year later you are done, so the US missle plan (surely a provocation, and an intent to strategically isolate Russia by a chain of tripwires) is used by the Russians to deflect incoming fire for replacing their old ICBMs with new ones.

But as a matter fo fact that mondernization was in the making since long, and started even before the US basis in Europe have been brought up again some years ago.

That's all there is in that story, and if you ask me - big deal. I assume that is what Xabba was meaning.

I back Russia 100% and I do not agree with US policy of "imaginable threats"...
What, they would start "war on terror" in Russia? Launch nukes? Although I consider a situation damn serious, I still designate this as a provocation from the US goverment. A bad move that is... I just wonderL what do they do to the aging missiles while new ones are built... God have mercy...

[dean_acheson]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Are people seriously arguing this point? That is plain stupid. Russia can unleash 1000's of nukes on the US, and we can shoot down what? 6 of them? Get real people and get a life!

-S

PS. Putin is using this for propoganda - something that has an alterior motive. So what is that motive? An excuse for developing their latest missile? I bet it has something to do with that.

well, we all know that Bush is the only guy in history to use fear mongering to solidify the base...

I am not sure why this is a really big deal, SDI does not not, nor ever has had the capabliites to stop a large scale exchange, I'm also sorry, but the ABM treaty isn't exactly something sacred. The US needs to be able to stop the PRK from turning Pearl Harbor into a glowing mass, that is what the SDI is for.

Putin is kicking Bush at the end of his Presidency to win cool points with the Iranians I guess. It isn't like anything he says will make the folks in Warsaw trust the Sovi..... the Russian government. I wish SecState Rice would have patted Vladimer on the head and said 'oh, you get so cute when you are mad!'

Isn't Putin busy enough suppressing free speech in Russia to have time to call us imperialists? Is this throwback to his KGB "Western Imperialism 101" course he took at Karl Marx University?

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by dean_acheson

Putin is kicking Bush at the end of his Presidency to win cool points with the Iranians I guess. ?

I'm sorry, but that's just a plain stupid statement. If anything it'd be the other way; it'd be pretty pathetic for Russia to stoop to the level of wooing a good-for-nothing rogue state. They might get a few bucks selling stuff that the Iranians want but, I assure you, Russia could (and in my view, should) do without Iran.

I repeat: Putin is good at spin, but most of it is directed internally.

[Heibges]

It would make more sense to destroy the missles themselves, then waste one penny on something that will never work.

How much of this is being researched in Murtha's district?:rotfl:

[dean_acheson]

Originally Posted by CCIP

I think the West is in the causeless-revenge-mode (for what?) again. In that same mode, they blew the chance to help a real democracy get established in Russia; now it's too late. It's not too late not to antagonize the current state though and work with them on peaceful terms....

I'm sorry, but that's just a plain stupid statement. If anything it'd be the other way; it'd be pretty pathetic for Russia to stoop to the level of wooing a good-for-nothing rogue state. They might get a few bucks selling stuff that the Iranians want but, I assure you, Russia could (and in my view, should) do without Iran.

Well, I'm sure that my above comments are pretty stupid, I've never really been accused of being very bright. But I did write my thesis for my second master's degree on the I.M.F.'s bailout program vis-a-vis the Russian Government from 1992-96, so I do know a bit about that, even if my knowledge is very imperfect, and how the west was supposed to baby-sit the third Rome into enlightened liberalism is beyond me.

Russia seems to think they need Iran, the former continues to sell the latter nuclear equiptment despite the crazed ruminations of the current glorious leader of Iran. Of course, given Russia's history of pogroms, it probably doesn't bother the Russian leadership very much that an Anti-Semite has such weapons. Maybe Russia thinks that a nuclear Iran might help them out with their security problems, but that would be pretty stupid.

I know that the U.S. government stupidly sold nuclear tech. to the Shah, but that was the same administration that signed onto the ABM treaty, a lot of bright ideas came out of the Nixon Administation....

Stupid is as stupid does, I guess.

[XabbaRus]

So how would America feel if Russia placed ABM missiles in Cuba and a radar in Mexico?

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

So how would America feel if Russia placed ABM missiles in Cuba and a radar in Mexico?

Placing defensive missiles of this type on Cuba would not be threatening at all. We Americans could simply destroy Russia completely and efficiently with Trident D-5's if we needed to. No ABM system in Cuba would stop that. And if this hypothetical Russian ABM system was deployed on Cuba and was of the size and scope of our current ABM plans, it wouldn't be able to stop many of our Minuteman land based ICBM's either (we have 500 of those active). Simply put, Putin is paranoid over nothing.

I agree with the others above. The USA is unable to stop a Russian nuclear strike, even with this system deployed.

[dean_acheson]

1. If Russia wants to develop an ABM system (which the US has offered to help them with) then I doubt we would raise too much of a stink about it, as long as we were assured that there were not Mirvs attached to these "ABM" missles.

2. We don't have alot of say if Mexico lets Russia puts up a radar system. I mean, what is Mexico going to do, boo Ms. America or send waves of illegal immigrants across our borders?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by dean_acheson

1. If Russia wants to develop an ABM system (which the US has offered to help them with) then I doubt we would raise too much of a stink about it, as long as we were assured that there were not Mirvs attached to these "ABM" missles.

2. We don't have alot of say if Mexico lets Russia puts up a radar system. I mean, what is Mexico going to do, boo Ms. America or send waves of illegal immigrants across our borders?

You certainly mean all that rethoric only, knowing that it all is not so simplistic as you try to make it appear. At no costs your nation would accept without reacting to be encircled by more and more russian bases functioning as spy posts and tripwires, and close to your borders. Through pressure via internationaol fiance system, and eco nomical measures, the US very well has a significant ammount of power to influence middle and south america, althiugh that immense power currently is picked away at a bit by new polticial alloiances forming up in these regions, and directed against the US. And as you already admitted, you would not ignore a Russian ABM set up in a manner that it could put your ICBM-MIRVs in danger - you said "as long as they do not arm them with MIRVs". So you would only accept them to do what does not seriously question your demand for dominance and unilateralism.

Those bases Bush wants to built: the one onclues most modern hightech equipement and radar, both could reach far into the russian territory, second where there are silos, you could put the declared missiles into - or not, and third it means to send more american soldiers to the Russian border, that would function as tripwires. Think of the Russians what you want, but they do not have another option than to see these plans as an intended provocation, and attempt to strategically seal them off a bit more. they also do not have any reason to trust you, since NATO's excessive expansion to the east was against what has been promsied to the Russians in the early nineties - that there would be a relatively neutral bufferzone between both blocks. Instead, they have NATO at their borders now. that the Eatern givernment asked to join NATO is no argument. That somebody asks for something does not give him the right to demand that his question must be given a positive answer. NATO could have delayed or rejected the requests. The growing Russian aggressiveness may be fostered by their new wealth (energy ressources), but it is also motivated by the constant erosion of trust into NATO's political reliability. If I were them, I would have come to exactly the same conclusions like they did. They already sent one reqaction that just days ago I "predicted" - they have made true their threat to block any western plans on Kosovo. And this is only the beginning, there will coming more from Moscow. For example with regard to the UN security council. Cooperation is something that for the forseeable future you can forget. If someone thinks "no problem, let's ignore the UN like we already did", just consider that Russia exports not only energy, but also nuclear technology, and military goods.

If the Americans want their damn ABm, they should opt for the navy version of the two, and sation the according platforms in the Mediterranean. no need to mess with then Russian by placing the so far inferior of the two versions directly at the Russian front door. This showdown is absolutely unnecessary, imo.

If a man shows up at the garden door of my house with a tele and a gun in his hands and time and again sweeping my house with it, I would not care what he would tell me about garden-photography, but show him why it is a good idea not stay too long there.