Russia blames US in missile row

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

Because it upsets the strategic balance. And the Russians are inherently nervous about any Western influence in their traditional sphere of influence (read forced domination), let alone military installations.

PD

The missile system doesnt do anything to the ICBM balance between US/NATO and Russia. But Russians are pissed that they have lost their former colonies to the "West". They still have a hold on Belarussia and the Central Asian states. I think they will go to any means to get Ukraine back as a part of Russia. They are playing the situation to be ripe to present their terms at some point. Funny thing is that the western border could be the most peaceful for them, and they could focus on the Chinese one. It seems they just like to get the attention of Europe to feel selfworth.

[PeriscopeDepth]

When I said strategic balance, I meant political. Not nuclear missile balance. Obviously we can flatten each other several times over, BMD system or not.

PD

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

When I said strategic balance, I meant political. Not nuclear missile balance. Obviously we can flatten each other several times over, BMD system or not.

PD

Then what is the point? The BMD system is pretty much worthless between the US and Russia and is only protection against cash pressed counties like Iran - possibly a country that is very likely to launch at some point!

So the point is - all this BS is propoganda as an excuse to do something in Russian eyes. They are using it, probably to break one of the START treaties in building their new missiles. That is complete utter BS because I don't think for a second that the US wouldn't launch a BMD weapon to save Russia in the event of an attack by a country like Iran, or even China! It is even for Russia's benefit!

For those that don't think the US wouldn't defend Russia - think again. A Russia in a chaotic mess from a rogue nuke strike is not in the best interest at all for the US or the rest of the world. Myself over here wants a stable Russia and their potentially devastating technologies in safe and controlled hands!

-S

[PeriscopeDepth]

The point has already been stated in this thread point blank several times. Former Warsaw Pact countries are abandoning their Russian protectors and letting the Western countries, particularly the US court them. Even build military installations in them. Russia will never, ever be happy about NATO/Western influence in states that were formerly under the Soviet Union.

PD

[Happy Times]

More or less. I would disagree that Putin is bent on dominating the former Soviet Republics though. I don't think it's domination so much as keeping NATO/the West out of his back yard.

PD

Im sure, that if they could, they would take them all back. He doesnt want them in the NATO because that makes it hard to invade them back at some point. This is not a joke, you just have to understand how they think. Its very 19th century, maps open in the Kremlin, they love their geopolitical theories that can get pretty wild..
I would bet everything i have on this being a 100% accurate image i painted..

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

Im sure, that if they could, they would take them all back. He doesnt want them in the NATO because that makes it hard to invade them back at some point. This is not a joke, you just have to understand how they think. Its very 19th century, maps open in the Kremlin, they love their geopolitical theories that can get pretty wild..
I would bet everything i have on this being a 100% accurate image i painted..

I agree with you 100%. But Putin is smart enough to know domination can't be an option on the table for the foreseeable future. So he'll do what he can to counter western influence, including knocking off (or at least trying to) heads of state that may be receptive or even solicit Western overtures.

PD

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

I agree with you 100%. But Putin is smart enough to know domination can't be an option on the table for the foreseeable future. So he'll do what he can to counter western influence, including knocking off (or at least trying to) heads of state that may be receptive or even solicit Western overtures.

PD

I agree with you 100%

[bradclark1]

When you are trying to cold start a cold war you grasp at whatever excuse you can to ratchet things up a bit.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

i back russia 100%... america doin dumb things like their missile defences... now who the hell would put missile defences in europe when the threat is north Korea and Iran, which everyone knows thatthey dont have the technology to fire stuff that far..

[ASWnut101]

`Cause neither has the technology to do anything, yet.

Why put a huge amount of BMD equipment when you could just drop a penetrating GBU-28 on their "Launch Pad?" AEGIS DDGs and CGs are patrolling off Japan, and the new X-band radar installed south of Alaska gives us plenty of protection there.

Remember, the NK's couldn't even get thier Tapodong 30 seconds into flight. Their "nuclear test" was a failure (mostly; it did explode, but not with any truly damaging force, about 1/2 kiloton or less). Iran, to our knowledge, does not have nukes, either.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by elite_hunter_sh3

i back russia 100%... america doin dumb things like their missile defences... now who the hell would put missile defences in europe when the threat is north Korea and Iran, which everyone knows thatthey dont have the technology to fire stuff that far..

Because US defence policy is NOT to counter the known threat. It is what's called "full spectrum dominance". This means, basically, US defense policy is to counter all /imaginable/ threats.

PD

[CCIP]

"Putin using this for propaganda purposes" - yep, totally agreed. Any administration can take lessons on how to use anything for propaganda purposes from Putin. He is a consummate politicians and has gotten away with using far, far worse things for propaganda. Most propaganda for him has been internal.

I disagree with assessing him as a threat in some sort of Cold War sense. He's not a threat, not a partner, he's just a guy with a huge country and a heap of historical baggage. He and his people are much smarter than that. Russia has real power and strategic interests and has no less right to them than anyone else. As it stands, Russia is neither a democracy, nor a USSR, nor a Russian Empire, and they're certainly not threatening your countries or ways of life in ways that some, ahem, other elements today might be. I would rather the West recognized them and worked with them more pragmatically; frankly I don't think you'll be seeing Soviet tanks anywhere in Europe anytime soon, but European tanks might well be need to run on Russian-produced gas for the foreseeable future.

I think the West is in the causeless-revenge-mode (for what?) again. In that same mode, they blew the chance to help a real democracy get established in Russia; now it's too late. It's not too late not to antagonize the current state though and work with them on peaceful terms.

[dean_acheson]

Originally Posted by CCIP

I think the West is in the causeless-revenge-mode (for what?) again. In that same mode, they blew the chance to help a real democracy get established in Russia; now it's too late. It's not too late not to antagonize the current state though and work with them on peaceful terms....

I'm sorry, but that's just a plain stupid statement. If anything it'd be the other way; it'd be pretty pathetic for Russia to stoop to the level of wooing a good-for-nothing rogue state. They might get a few bucks selling stuff that the Iranians want but, I assure you, Russia could (and in my view, should) do without Iran.

Well, I'm sure that my above comments are pretty stupid, I've never really been accused of being very bright. But I did write my thesis for my second master's degree on the I.M.F.'s bailout program vis-a-vis the Russian Government from 1992-96, so I do know a bit about that, even if my knowledge is very imperfect, and how the west was supposed to baby-sit the third Rome into enlightened liberalism is beyond me.

Russia seems to think they need Iran, the former continues to sell the latter nuclear equiptment despite the crazed ruminations of the current glorious leader of Iran. Of course, given Russia's history of pogroms, it probably doesn't bother the Russian leadership very much that an Anti-Semite has such weapons. Maybe Russia thinks that a nuclear Iran might help them out with their security problems, but that would be pretty stupid.

I know that the U.S. government stupidly sold nuclear tech. to the Shah, but that was the same administration that signed onto the ABM treaty, a lot of bright ideas came out of the Nixon Administation....

Stupid is as stupid does, I guess.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by elite_hunter_sh3

i back russia 100%... america doin dumb things like their missile defences... now who the hell would put missile defences in europe when the threat is north Korea and Iran, which everyone knows thatthey dont have the technology to fire stuff that far..

[CCIP]

LOL

"ESTIMATED ranges of POTENTIAL missiles from a POTENTIAL source with a margin of error of 2250km"

Could you be any more certain?