New Zealand no longer a christian country

[kiwi_2005]

Our Prime minister Helen Clark is on the road to her last year in parliment, come next election no doubt (hopefully) shes out!

She refused to say grace before dinner when dining with the Queen but she will cover her head when attending muslim events. She'll respect a religion that is infamous for terrorism, and abuse of it's own "followers" but when it comes to Christians who are generally victims of their actions, she will trample it to the ground.

We are no longer recognise as a christain country we dont have a religeon according to her. Yet we have a large christain following for a small nation.

Nor am i a christain but i would side with them if i had to choose a side.

Last straw for Helen!

[Letum]

Jolly good!
The less organised religion in the world; the better!

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

Our Prime minister Helen Clark is on the road to her last year in parliment, come next election no doubt (hopefully) shes out!

She refused to say grace before dinner when dining with the Queen but she will cover her head when attending muslim events. She'll respect a religion that is infamous for terrorism, and abuse of it's own "followers" but when it comes to Christians who are generally victims of their actions, she will trample it to the ground.

We are no longer recognise as a christain country we dont have a religeon according to her. Yet we have a large christain following for a small nation.

Nor am i a christain but i would side with them if i had to choose a side.

Last straw for Helen!

Nice - what BS. Recognizes the people she is scared of, but won't give dignitary's in visit respect. You elected this person?

-S

to quote something a journo here said about Helen Clark "She's a great Bloke" :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Letum

Jolly good!
The less organised religion in the world; the better!

Less is more.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Less is more.

And none is all!

I hope to see the day when each person lives life by their own personal, informed philosophy instead of the dogmas of one or another religion passed down via indoctrination, arrogant preaching and cultural exspectations.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Letum

And none is all!

I'll just leave you with my little enigma.

[Hitman]

I hope to see the day when each person lives life by their own personal, informed philosophy instead of the dogmas of one or another religion passed down via indoctrination, arrogant preaching and cultural exspectations.

That would requiere people to sit down and think as well as asuming the responsability of their actions, instead of doing the easy thing of letting others (Churches) think for them and getting the "officially approved religious" blessing for what they do.

Sad world.

[Happy Times]

We are a fundamentalist country. We havent separated Church and State, 83.1% are Lutheran.

[Prof]

Originally Posted by Hitman

That would requiere people to sit down and think as well as asuming the responsability of their actions, instead of doing the easy thing of letting others (Churches) think for them and getting the "officially approved religious" blessing for what they do.

Sad world.

Why do you assume that Christians don't think for themselves? The atheist rhetoric on this forum in the past few days is getting a little irritating.

[Jimbuna]

A lot of people uphold the belief that religion and politics are a dangerous mix. Hell!!...just look through yor history books :hmm:

[Hitman]

Why do you assume that Christians don't think for themselves? The atheist rhetoric on this forum in the past few days is getting a little irritating

I'm no atheist, quite the opposite. I firmly believe in the existance of an almighty God, creator of everything. Yet I refuse explicitely any of the major existing cults (Jewish, Christian, Muslim) as I can't rationally accept a religion based upon "revelation". I don't say that ALL christians don't think for themselves (Kant was a good example of the opposite), but based on my conversations with a good amount of them, I find that 99% follow their religion basically because they were taught so. Few, if any, have taken the interest of reading (specially philosophy) and trying to make their own conclusions instead of simply choosing to believe what others say.

IMO it is an offence against God to have an intelligence and not use it to draw your own conclussions about you, God and all that implies, but instead believing blindly what others say that God is or wants. It might be easier, but it is not necessarily the best.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by Prof

Why do you assume that Christians don't think for themselves? The atheist rhetoric on this forum in the past few days is getting a little irritating.

Well, firstly I think I should point out that I am very, very far from atheist.

Back to the Question....I think that Christians/Muslims/Hindus/Jews etc, etc have not arrived at their religion due to free thaught because in becoming part of their religion, the sign up to a belief in dogmas that they may have not yet heard of.

For example; Lets say that that Rabbi 'Mike' tells 'Joe' all the basics of Judaism. Joe might go home and spend a few weeks thinking about what he has been told. If, after thinking about it, Joe agrees with what Mike told him about Judaism, then Joe has shown some thought behind his belief in the basics of Judaism. Joe's beliefs are not his own, independent creation, but he has taught about them.
However, lets imagine that Joe decides to convert to Judaism. Joe has signed up to believe in the set of teachings and dogmas that Judaism involves. Joe has now put a end to his free thinking because if Rabbi Mike tells Joe something new about Judaism then Joe is likely to believe it because it is part of his religion; no thought required. Like wise, if Joe is told something by a non-Jew that contradicts Judaism Joe is likely to disregard it with out thought because his religion tells him to.

(I have used Judaism as my example here, but Judaism could be substituted for any religion in the example.)

Many people try to be somewhat free-thinking whilst remaining in a religion. They do this by "bending the rules" of their religion. For example; my mother was a catholic, but she did not believe the pope was infallible amongst other things.
I'm someways her free thinking made her not a catholic and conversely; in someways her catholicism made her not a free thinker for the same reasons that Joe was not. However flexible a religion is, by signing up to be a member of it, you are still signing up to beliefs (and dis-beliefs) you haven't heard of yet and therefore, certainly haven't thought about.

If you think you have heard about every dogma in your religion then I am more than willing to test you.

[kurtz]

Originally Posted by Prof

Why do you assume that Christians don't think for themselves? The atheist rhetoric on this forum in the past few days is getting a little irritating.

Experience.

Whenever I've spoken to Christians and asked them why they believe things they say it's because it's in the bible.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Letum

And none is all!

I hope to see the day when each person lives life by their own personal, informed philosophy instead of the dogmas of one or another religion passed down via indoctrination, arrogant preaching and cultural exspectations.

Or in short: living life by reason.