[TEC] Can we find a solution for ships circling around when convoy is attacked?

05-24-07, 04:31 PM

Well, devs have announced this in the upcoming 1.3 patch:
"The Group AI should always choose a new commander when the current one gets killed, instead of waiting for the currently assigned one and having all ships circle around".

This is the problem we all had when attacking convoys/TF...
Can we find the solution before the patch?

Group leader / Commander is set in the campaign files (.mis)
Example:

And this is how it looks in the .mis file:

…
[RndGroup 1]
GroupName=41a_Jap_TaskForce_001
Category=0
CommandEntry=0
Long=16796400.000000
Lat=4272200.000000
Height=0.000000
DelayMin=60
DelayMinInterv=30240
SpawnProbability=65
RandStartRadius=0.000000
ReportPosMin=1440
ReportPosProbability=85
Heading=223.733994
Speed=11.000000
ColumnsNo=3
Spacing=800
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
CurrentInstanceID=0
GameEntryDate=19420201
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19420228
GameExitTime=0
MaxInst=10000
MaxUnitsCreated=100
DockedShip=false
NextWP=0

[RndGroup 1.RndUnit 1]
Class=BBIse
Type=11
Origin=Japan
Side=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19411201
No=2
Escort=false
SpawnProbability=100
CrewRating=4

By setting CommandEntry=0, RndGroup 1.RndUnit 1 is choosen as leader.
If only we could make it CommandEntry=0; CommandEntry=1; CommandEntry=2... :hmm:

kakemann · 05-24-07, 04:44 PM

Interesting.. Wonder if the game can read semicolon so that more command entry units could be assigned to that group... Have you tried it? I'm not sure if I understood it... You're saying that escort behavior could be related to this? Do you mean that the DD's are circling or all ships?

My biggest concern is the destroyers which just stops and doesn't do anything

05-24-07, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kakemann

You're saying that escort behavior could be related to this? Do you mean that the DD's are circling or all ships?

It is related: 1.3 patch states that it SHOULD solve "The Group AI should always choose a new commander when the current one gets killed, instead of waiting for the currently assigned one and having all ships circle around".

I presume that means that every unit in the group follows the group leader (set as CommandEntry=xy). If the leader unit is sunk, disabled or slows to 1kts, all other ships (including escort destroyers...) will still follow him.

I have not (yet) tried to play with it... I'm waiting for some help from more experienced modders

kakemann · 05-24-07, 05:24 PM

Ok, i see... I'll try and post back soon!

kakemann · 05-24-07, 05:46 PM

Since the groups will appear randomly it will probably take a lot of time testing this. I have modified all convoy groups and will try to play now to see if there is any difference!

kakemann · 05-24-07, 06:09 PM

Looks like Cargo ships usually are the group leader for 41 convoys file... So in order to test my changed file I'll have to try to sink one of the cargos... :hmm:

kakemann · 05-24-07, 06:17 PM

Ok!

Tested by adding these lines in all of the random groups for 41. campaign..

Quote:

[RndGroup 1]
GroupName=41a_Jap_Convoys_001
Category=0
CommandEntry=0
CommandEntry=1
CommandEntry=2
CommandEntry=3
CommandEntry=4
Long=16947500.000000
Lat=5195000.000000
Height=0.000000
DelayMin=60
DelayMinInterv=4260
SpawnProbability=70
RandStartRadius=0.000000
ReportPosMin=1440
ReportPosProbability=75
Heading=315.404999
Speed=9.000000
ColumnsNo=4
Spacing=700
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
CurrentInstanceID=0
GameEntryDate=19411201
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19420228
GameExitTime=0
MaxInst=10000
MaxUnitsCreated=100
DockedShip=false
NextWP=0

I met a convoy and closed for battle...

When hitting the first merchant everything seemed normal. after hitting another ship with my second torpedo, the game crashed to desktop.
I guess I must have hit the group leader.

Appearently the game didn't know how to read multiple command entry lines...

I'll try some more...

kakemann · 05-24-07, 06:40 PM

Quote:

[RndGroup 1]
GroupName=41a_Jap_Convoys_001
Category=0
CommandEntry=0, 1, 2, 3

Long=16947500.000000
Lat=5195000.000000
Height=0.000000
DelayMin=60
DelayMinInterv=4260
SpawnProbability=70
RandStartRadius=0.000000
ReportPosMin=1440
ReportPosProbability=75
Heading=315.404999
Speed=9.000000
ColumnsNo=4
Spacing=700
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
CurrentInstanceID=0
GameEntryDate=19411201
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19420228
GameExitTime=0
MaxInst=10000
MaxUnitsCreated=100
DockedShip=false
NextWP=0

Tried this.
Still no luck. I got to play longer now. I saw that when hitting several ships the destroyers acted like they normally do. stop up and act passive... no change here..

If someone has some advice here, I might try - or I'll wait for the 1.3 patch with all the AI fixes! Really look forward to that...

Jace11 · 05-24-07, 07:46 PM

What happens when you have multiple leaders..

ie

the first entry is 3 x GenericCargo

Leader set to "3 x GenericCargo"...

Then if you kill one, the others are "probably" "maybe" still leaders.. convoy continues..

U-Bones · 05-24-07, 10:29 PM

Yeah I saw that comment and mulled it about today. I am not so sure about the fallen leader theory.

I have seen that kind of behavior practically every time. I target only one ship per approach, full spread. Seems too much of an unbelievable co-incidence that I pick the leader every time.

Not saying it has no effect, just that I think there is more to the story. FWIW. As usual when I'm in guess mode, I'm happy to be wrong.

Fearless · 05-25-07, 01:43 AM

Just wondering, what happens if the command entry is disabled thus: ;CommandEntry=0

Would that make a difference...I mean all captains respond to the threat??

kakemann · 05-25-07, 09:02 AM

Haven't tried that one. leaving for the weekend... I can test on monday, but if anyone else would like to try.. please post your findings here

Thanks

Jace11 · 05-25-07, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by U-Bones

Yeah I saw that comment and mulled it about today. I am not so sure about the fallen leader theory.

I have seen that kind of behavior practically every time. I target only one ship per approach, full spread. Seems too much of an unbelievable co-incidence that I pick the leader every time.

Not saying it has no effect, just that I think there is more to the story. FWIW. As usual when I'm in guess mode, I'm happy to be wrong.

I agree, my experiences make me think you are right. Sure Leader death is a one big problem as I tested the other night in a scripted mission, sink leader = 3 knts sink another and leader alive = 7, 8 knots zig zag.

But I am sure I have hit non-leaders and seen bad AI.

kakemann · 05-25-07, 10:04 AM

:hmm:
Maybe leave it to the devs then...

05-25-07, 11:12 AM

could someone see how does CommandEntry= look in .mis files in SH3?
If it is the same as in SH4, I guess it's hard-coded...

P.S. Appreciate the effort, kakemann.

05-24-07, 04:31 PM	#1
Julius Caesar Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	[TEC] Can we find a solution for ships circling around when convoy is attacked? Well, devs have announced this in the upcoming 1.3 patch: "The Group AI should always choose a new commander when the current one gets killed, instead of waiting for the currently assigned one and having all ships circle around". This is the problem we all had when attacking convoys/TF... Can we find the solution before the patch? Group leader / Commander is set in the campaign files (.mis) Example: And this is how it looks in the .mis file: … [RndGroup 1] GroupName=41a_Jap_TaskForce_001 Category=0 CommandEntry=0 Long=16796400.000000 Lat=4272200.000000 Height=0.000000 DelayMin=60 DelayMinInterv=30240 SpawnProbability=65 RandStartRadius=0.000000 ReportPosMin=1440 ReportPosProbability=85 Heading=223.733994 Speed=11.000000 ColumnsNo=3 Spacing=800 DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true CurrentInstanceID=0 GameEntryDate=19420201 GameEntryTime=0 GameExitDate=19420228 GameExitTime=0 MaxInst=10000 MaxUnitsCreated=100 DockedShip=false NextWP=0 [RndGroup 1.RndUnit 1] Class=BBIse Type=11 Origin=Japan Side=0 CargoExt=-1 CargoInt=-1 CfgDate=19411201 No=2 Escort=false SpawnProbability=100 CrewRating=4 By setting CommandEntry=0, RndGroup 1.RndUnit 1 is choosen as leader. If only we could make it CommandEntry=0; CommandEntry=1; CommandEntry=2... :hmm:

05-24-07, 04:44 PM	#2
kakemann Samurai Navy Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pretty close to the big german cruiser Blücher in Norway Posts: 568 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Interesting.. Wonder if the game can read semicolon so that more command entry units could be assigned to that group... Have you tried it? I'm not sure if I understood it... You're saying that escort behavior could be related to this? Do you mean that the DD's are circling or all ships? My biggest concern is the destroyers which just stops and doesn't do anything __________________ My SH4 releases compatible with SH4 1.5 and earlier: Kakemann and ATR-42's Silent Hunter 4 Music FIX Kakemann and Lurker_hlb3 Destroyer sensors and radar FIX Tutorial: How to add new music tracks to SH4

05-24-07, 05:24 PM	#4
kakemann Samurai Navy Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pretty close to the big german cruiser Blücher in Norway Posts: 568 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Ok, i see... I'll try and post back soon! __________________ My SH4 releases compatible with SH4 1.5 and earlier: Kakemann and ATR-42's Silent Hunter 4 Music FIX Kakemann and Lurker_hlb3 Destroyer sensors and radar FIX Tutorial: How to add new music tracks to SH4

05-24-07, 05:46 PM	#5
kakemann Samurai Navy Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pretty close to the big german cruiser Blücher in Norway Posts: 568 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Since the groups will appear randomly it will probably take a lot of time testing this. I have modified all convoy groups and will try to play now to see if there is any difference! __________________ My SH4 releases compatible with SH4 1.5 and earlier: Kakemann and ATR-42's Silent Hunter 4 Music FIX Kakemann and Lurker_hlb3 Destroyer sensors and radar FIX Tutorial: How to add new music tracks to SH4

05-24-07, 06:09 PM	#6
kakemann Samurai Navy Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pretty close to the big german cruiser Blücher in Norway Posts: 568 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Looks like Cargo ships usually are the group leader for 41 convoys file... So in order to test my changed file I'll have to try to sink one of the cargos... :hmm: __________________ My SH4 releases compatible with SH4 1.5 and earlier: Kakemann and ATR-42's Silent Hunter 4 Music FIX Kakemann and Lurker_hlb3 Destroyer sensors and radar FIX Tutorial: How to add new music tracks to SH4

05-24-07, 07:46 PM	#9
Jace11 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK Posts: 683 Downloads: 104 Uploads: 1	What happens when you have multiple leaders.. ie the first entry is 3 x GenericCargo Leader set to "3 x GenericCargo"... Then if you kill one, the others are "probably" "maybe" still leaders.. convoy continues..

05-24-07, 10:29 PM	#10
U-Bones Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Treading Water Posts: 847 Downloads: 56 Uploads: 0	Yeah I saw that comment and mulled it about today. I am not so sure about the fallen leader theory. I have seen that kind of behavior practically every time. I target only one ship per approach, full spread. Seems too much of an unbelievable co-incidence that I pick the leader every time. Not saying it has no effect, just that I think there is more to the story. FWIW. As usual when I'm in guess mode, I'm happy to be wrong.

05-25-07, 01:43 AM	#11
Fearless Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 1,047 Downloads: 340 Uploads: 1	Just wondering, what happens if the command entry is disabled thus: ;CommandEntry=0 Would that make a difference...I mean all captains respond to the threat??

05-25-07, 09:02 AM	#12
kakemann Samurai Navy Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pretty close to the big german cruiser Blücher in Norway Posts: 568 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Haven't tried that one. leaving for the weekend... I can test on monday, but if anyone else would like to try.. please post your findings here Thanks __________________ My SH4 releases compatible with SH4 1.5 and earlier: Kakemann and ATR-42's Silent Hunter 4 Music FIX Kakemann and Lurker_hlb3 Destroyer sensors and radar FIX Tutorial: How to add new music tracks to SH4

05-25-07, 10:04 AM	#14
kakemann Samurai Navy Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pretty close to the big german cruiser Blücher in Norway Posts: 568 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	:hmm: Maybe leave it to the devs then... __________________ My SH4 releases compatible with SH4 1.5 and earlier: Kakemann and ATR-42's Silent Hunter 4 Music FIX Kakemann and Lurker_hlb3 Destroyer sensors and radar FIX Tutorial: How to add new music tracks to SH4

05-25-07, 11:12 AM	#15
Julius Caesar Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	could someone see how does CommandEntry= look in .mis files in SH3? If it is the same as in SH4, I guess it's hard-coded... P.S. Appreciate the effort, kakemann.